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  Click here to go to the first Trove Team post in this thread.   Thread: New Stellar Loot and a Tease of Gems to Come

  1. #71
    Senior Member Batman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alethi View Post
    Nooooo shh! Stop giving them ideas! (You just described Archeage btw).
    Oh no ! It's Metin2 all over again !
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  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by TL_DR View Post
    Problem is, since the shaper's packs were locked on the store, you actually have to play the game on the PTS to get flux to upgrade equipment to do the testing. Nobody has time to play PTS and Live. The ones who main on PTS risk potential account wipe at any time in favor of playing on the actual Live server, that kind of tells you something.

    This is a damage sponge game that does not require much skill and requires even less strategy. I've seen radiant-equipped players crumple within seconds at a hardmode ST boss because the small amount of skill/strategy required was too much for them. Mobs just get stronger along with player's gear, there really is no "endgame" as that would imply that there is a definitive ending point. The players who are at this so called "endgame" are the ones who should be all but done with the game and ready to move on to another game, but the chill out and play nature of the game apparently keeps them longer than necessary. Building is very niche, most players are much more concerned with adventure mode. Show them the monsters and show them the loot, that's all they want.

    If the majority of players have 1 radiant set(3 pieces) and 5 classes, then that needs to be strongly considered when pricing this Stellar tier that seems to be targeted at the top 10% of players(who grow their wealth from the 90% of other players). It is a huge waste of development resources to create content that only 10% of the player base can partake of. Of course that top 10% does have some turnover, but it remains 10% of the player base nonetheless.

    My current achievements include: 6 maxed radiant pieces, 14 maxed S5 pieces, and 19 maxed S4 pieces for my 13 classes. Mastery is 208. I've contributed over 130 zones to my club. Acquiring that much took 100 solid days of playing and merching whatever scraps I could muster. I've got $80(ie. ~2 retail games worth) into the game primarily to unlock personal chest space and inventory space.

    It is nice to see continued development and the evolution path is interesting to say the least, however you need to be sure you are balancing according to the needs of the majority of players. Frustrated players stop playing/spending.

    If this: http://steamcharts.com/app/304050 is merely 10% of the Trove player base, then you have under 115,000 active players who need to put up enough to pay for the salaries, resources and fees required to maintain and improve the game. It's no wonder the upper management at Trion is pushing you to make the monetization changes since the previous earning scheme was not sustainable.

    Back to Stellar tiered equips, you've already kicked out a place at Radiant, requiring 3 forged souls as opposed to 2 for each previous level. You'd enrage many players by reducing Radiant to 2 Pentas but you'd have many kudos from the 90% of players who struggle to equip late-game equips. There's absolutely no good reason why any equipment upgrade should cost 3 forged souls, when 2 for each tier is logical(a concept software producers should embrace) and much more attainable and reasonable. Deconstructing a Radiant currently gives 1 Penta, even though 3 were required(+ the maxed S5), this is clearly a manufactured hurdle to limit players unnecessarily and this just screams bad planning.

    Try not to lose touch with how real players partake of the game, because when you do lose touch, you will drive your game into the ground. Players want a fun experience when playing a game, it is their escape after dealing with the BS in real life all day.
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  3. #73
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    The current pattern of each level of gear being exponentially more difficult to obtain just isn't sustainable. If getting a piece of stellar takes two deconstructed radiants to upgrade a radiant, even at 150k for each radiant that is 450k flux. If you think that is acceptable, what about a tier that comes after stellar, or the one after that? A full set for one class would cost more than ganda. If you want to get a full set for every class without moving gear around, it would be over 170 million flux. If they just make flux easier to get from higher level worlds to balance that, it will make it impossible for new players to afford anything. Something has to change in the system at some point, and now seems like a good time.

    If they did something like make radiant drops common enough in u7 that it becomes cheaper to buy the soul from deconstructing than it is to forge, without making much increase in flux earned the system might work, at least for now, but if they have something like that planned they should start putting that information in the announcements, instead of making everyone freak out.

  4. #74
    Seems a bit too easy, make it 6 radiant souls per stellar.

  5. #75
    Senior Member AshaMarie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ipokewhales View Post
    Seems a bit too easy, make it 6 radiant souls per stellar.
    Too easy? Sure, let's go farm 60+ radiant gears so we can gear all classes....

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by TL_DR View Post
    Try not to lose touch with how real players partake of the game, because when you do lose touch, you will drive your game into the ground. Players want a fun experience when playing a game, it is their escape after dealing with the BS in real life all day.
    The top 10% have spent so much money and time, that I doubt they would care what they did. It's those of us who haven't spent much money, but have grinded for well over a year that would take the biggest hit. That being said, are you implying that those of us, that have played for a very long time now, are not "real' players? I am pretty sure me grinding for thousands of hours is just as real as a new born trovian grinding for thousand) hours in the year(s) to come.

    I do agree that they need to change the system up, but undermining the hours of grinding most of my classes into full radiant isn't the answer. Not unless they have the current radiant gear become Classic Radiant Gear and be deconed for the 3 pentas back, with all new future radiants being made/deconed with the new system in mind. The same thing can be said about making penta's much easier to get. I am not in favor of any method that devalues the time I have spent playing by any sizable amount.
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  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maledictam View Post
    The top 10% have spent so much money and time, that I doubt they would care what they did. It's those of us who haven't spent much money, but have grinded for well over a year that would take the biggest hit. That being said, are you implying that those of us, that have played for a very long time now, are not "real' players? I am pretty sure me grinding for thousands of hours is just as real as a new born trovian grinding for thousand) hours in the year(s) to come.
    Nope, not at all implying that at all, sorry that you read more into that than there was.

    By "real players", I meant the actual players of the live game, of all skill levels and time investment, as opposed to those who main on PTS and especially any internal testing and development personnel. If the devs' sounding board is primarily other devs, then they may not be taking the real players into account.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maledictam View Post
    I do agree that they need to change the system up, but undermining the hours of grinding most of my classes into full radiant isn't the answer. Not unless they have the current radiant gear become Classic Radiant Gear and be deconed for the 3 pentas back, with all new future radiants being made/deconed with the new system in mind. The same thing can be said about making penta's much easier to get. I am not in favor of any method that devalues the time I have spent playing by any sizable amount.
    Yup, so since the precedence is that it takes 3 Pentas + a maxed S5 to make a Radiant, then it is extremely likely that you'll see this same formula in the forging of a Stellar.

    If only the top 10% of players will be able to to afford forge to Stellar, but the remaining 90% of players is funding the bulk of the development of the system(perhaps with very little chance of getting to Stellar themselves), then that is extreme disrespect to the average player on the part of the devs.

    If it currently takes about 145kF to make 1 unmaxed Radiant, and you need 4 Radiants(3 Radiant forged souls and 1 maxed Radiant), you're looking at about 600kF to forge 1 Stellar.

    However, if they reduce the forge cost of Radiant and Stellar to only require 2 forged souls of the appropriate type, then the cost to forge 1 Stellar would come down. So, if it were to change to about 105kF to forge 1 Radiant(2 Pentas + 1 maxed S5), and 3 Radiants for the Stellar(2 unmaxed Radiants + 1 maxed Radiant), then we're looking at about 315kF to forge 1 Stellar.

    If you are a player who spent 3 Pentas and the maxed S5 for a radiant, then that Radiant is almost certainly developed to be the main item that you would apply further souls to in order to forge a Stellar, so there is effectively no loss.

    In the long run, reducing from 3 forged-souls to 2 forged-souls would be cheaper for players to obtain and thus more players would actually enjoy the new content that they contributed to the development of with their $ purchases in the Trove Store(especially since the recent changes to how classes are acquired).

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by TL_DR View Post
    However, if they reduce the forge cost of Radiant and Stellar to only require 2 forged souls of the appropriate type, then the cost to forge 1 Stellar would come down. So, if it were to change to about 105kF to forge 1 Radiant(2 Pentas + 1 maxed S5), and 3 Radiants for the Stellar(2 unmaxed Radiants + 1 maxed Radiant), then we're looking at about 315kF to forge 1 Stellar.

    If you are a player who spent 3 Pentas and the maxed S5 for a radiant, then that Radiant is almost certainly developed to be the main item that you would apply further souls to in order to forge a Stellar, so there is effectively no loss.
    Was pretty tired and after midnight, sorry I read into it to far :P They definitely need to change the formula up for sure. Especially since we are very likely to see another upgrade past stellar in the future.

    I am fine with needing to grind a decent amount more for the next upgrade. The current system makes one feel like they are going backwards instead of forward. I would rather grind a hundred hours, getting a new item from a new world or something, then to decon 80% of my radiants and grind the same area's to make more radiants to decon, to slowly get back gear on the classes that are currently geared.

    The question is, what is considered an acceptable time frame for someone to get a set of stellar gear from scratch? Mining is a new players best source of income early on. I would assume it's safe to say that almost anyone can make 20k flux an hour, within very little time of playing. I would consider that to be around the average flux per hour, that the average player makes. If someone has more accurate numbers, feel free to share.

    If so, then under the current system, it would take just under 8 hours per radiant. It would take just under 24 hours to make a set of Radiant or just under 72 hours for a full set of stellar. Now eventually those newer players should be able to pull in twice that. Which would near half the time spent to 12 hours per radiant set or 25 hours per stellar.. Is this an acceptable time span, when you add in the flux needed to keep/catch up with mastery?

    Time wise, I feel it's within an acceptable amount of time to gear up one class. However, it's very tedious and shouldn't feel like you're taking steps back non stop, while progressing.
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  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryoGX View Post
    Alright, so their update implies that they don't have a final way of going about this, so I'll give my two cents on the subject.

    DO NOT keep the upgrade system the same for Radiant to Stellar.

    You guys already recognize that the process can be so incredibly tedious for a single Radiant item that you introduced a paid alternative for getting *one*.

    Make Radiants worthwhile
    They may not be the highest now, but make them worthwhile to the point where you don't need to deconstruct other radiants to upgrade. Go about them in a way that makes them truly endgame, but doesn't have to feel as tediously grindy.

    Might edit with more ideas.
    I'm fine with the same patterns that has been done. (Keeping it the way it is 4 radiants or something of the sort)
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  10. #80
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    I can go mining for more than an hour and I don't walk away with 20k flux. Barely even a stack of ore unless I mine JUST shapestone for that hour and even then it's what? Like 3k, 4 if you're lucky and prices rose? Mining all day on Tuesdays could yield about 20k/day maybe, but stop making it seem so easy for newbies to make money per hour. Everyone acts like it takes no time at all, remember what a newbie's lasermancy will be at as well? And how many bombs they will have? No newbie will be pulling in 20k/hour, hell U6 farmers don't always walk away with 20k an hour either. You only do if you get pentas and quads, and that won't be EVERY hour.

    (I have radiant lasermancy hat, S4 lasermancy ring, megaminer, patron, and at least 500 bombs on me at a time, so I think I can accurately judge how much it's possible to make by mining)

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