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Thread: You fixed equations with additive but forgot to fix cooldowns.

  1. #1
    Senior Member SloWolfe's Avatar
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    You fixed equations with additive but forgot to fix cooldowns.

    First of all thank you for going to an additive system, this solved so many problems when it came to the maths. Though with that said, I think you missed something major still makes me upset when doing tests and making builds. What I am talking about are cooldown percent calculations and negative cooldowns and the two interacting.

    Cooldown percentages I can slightly forgive but is very misleading. There are two different cooldown reduction percentages and they have no way of stacking since they are exclusive to allies, being Chronomancer (25%), Dragonlings (10%), and King Qubesly (10%). These percentages are misleading as the end results do not match the display value. You would expect the calculations to look like (X0.75) and (X0.9), if you thought that you would be wrong since instead they look like (X/1.25) and (X/1.1). Why does this matter? Simply because 25% is not 25%, no no no, rather it is 20% and 10% is closer to 9%.
    I can almost understand the idea for this calculation since it has diminishing returns, which for stacking means it is less effective the higher you go. Nice idea but you can not stack these items, so these calculations just mean the single items are less effective than they should be for no reason at all. When people put on an item that says one thing but get another it is rather annoying, especially when it uses an equation to solve a problem that can not even exist.

    My second issue are negative cooldowns, also known as the Boomeranger's boomerang and Chronomantic Emblem. The way these two items work is that they add -7 seconds to the total cooldown, I know this sounds stupid but just go along with it cause it gets worse. By itself there are no problems at all here, it is when you pair it with a cooldown percentage when there are pretty large issues. If you look at the above section you would think that the calculation looks like ((X/1.25)-7), this would once again be wrong because in reality it is ((X-7)/1.25). Now here is the reason I call it negative instead of reduction, and that is because it is in fact addition cooldown but just goes the other way. Due to this, cooldown percentages do in fact apply to the negative cooldowns. This is terrible since that negative cooldown goes down to -5.6 seconds with 25% and -6.3 with 10%.

    With or without cooldown percentages you will be using near the same amount of Boomerangs or Chronomantic proc's due to this which really should not be happening. For example without a percentage bonus you are looking at 4 boomerangs to get the ultimate back up, with a percentage you are looking at the exact same amount of boomerangs. You applied the highest percentage there is and it does absolutely nothing. This also applies to all ultimates using the Chronomantic Emblem, nothing changes with or without Chronomancer.
    Boomerangs themselves don't even come out much faster with a 25% reduction. They have a normal cooldown of 11 second so with the reduction of the catch it is a 4 second cooldown. With 25% added in the cooldown is 8.8 but the reduction is down to 5.6 totalling a 3.2 second cooldown. If it did not reduce the negative cooldown it would be 1.8 seconds.

    There is the argument that not having the two applied together would be overpowered, but it really is not even close. The longest ability is 50s, and with the current system it would take 7.14 flasks (about 7) to cooldown (with or without percentages). With my idea it would both reduce the cooldown to 40s and it would only take 5.71 flasks (about 6) to cooldown. Only a reduction of 10s and saves 1.43 flasks. Looking at the lowest cooldown of 8s it would take 1.14 flasks, and with the proposed idea gets reduced to 6.4s and takes 0.91 flasks. 1.6s difference and negligible amount for flasks so it is the same amount. Be it large or small the effects are not super strong and hardly overpowered, but way better than the non-existent effects currently present. I would even be fine with the diminishing returns of the percentage not being fixed (though can we stop using 20% and calling it 25%?), but something needs to be done about the synergy between the two items.

    TL;DR
    Cooldown percentages have diminishing returns despite having no need for such a system. Cooldown percentages and negative cooldowns apply to each other reducing the effectiveness of both. Chronomancer and Chronomantic have little to no synergy depending on the ability. Low cooldown abilities gain little benefit and long cooldowns gain no benefit currently. Fixing the synergy won't make things too strong and out of control but instead makes using cooldown items together not worthless.

  2. #2
    Senior Member ForsakenHero's Avatar
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    Damm Wolfy you have been busy doing your homework lately! +1




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    Senior Member BlueSparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenHero View Post
    Damm Wolfy you have been busy doing your homework lately! +1
    10/10 best comment. Can I quot you.
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    Senior Member Pfiffel's Avatar
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    Yeah, I was quite surprised when I found out a while ago that cooldown cuts basically only apply to the base cooldown, making any cooldown reduction synergy nonexistant. I also agree about the way reduction is calculated, it is pretty counter-intuitive. That pesky 36.36363636 second cooldown with Dragonling always bothered me, haha.

  5. #5
    Senior Member SloWolfe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenHero View Post
    Damm Wolfy you have been busy doing your homework lately! +1
    Got a lot of time on my hands as I am cutting down a bit on playing so that means extra time to post notes like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pfiffel View Post
    Yeah, I was quite surprised when I found out a while ago that cooldown cuts basically only apply to the base cooldown, making any cooldown reduction synergy nonexistant. I also agree about the way reduction is calculated, it is pretty counter-intuitive. That pesky 36.36363636 second cooldown with Dragonling always bothered me, haha.
    It is so backwards how everything about cooldown works. It limits what you can do with builds which is rather sad when the only ones it touches are more specialized/gimmick builds which are already weaker by nature. Makes no sense to me why already weak options are made weaker so we are forced into the meta by design.

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    Senior Member ForsakenHero's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSparrow View Post
    10/10 best comment. Can I quot you.
    Sure go nuts!




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    Senior Member bananaboms's Avatar
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    This is the reason I switched out of my math major. Much respect wolfy. +1 thanks for the notes

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    Senior Member Tyreuzs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueSparrow View Post
    10/10 best comment. Can I quot you.
    Quote Originally Posted by ForsakenHero View Post
    Sure go nuts!
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  9. #9
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    Sure looks like a worthy fix, nice work on the number crunching
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  10. #10
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    Nice Calculations :0

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