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Thread: PVP, Gear, and Class Abilities

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb PVP, Gear, and Class Abilities

    I have been doing some brainstorming and writing over the past couple of days, and it's something that is addressed to the fine devs of Trove, but want to share with everyone else. As an aside I've written the following before Blizzard announced their changes to PVP in their upcoming expansion, but I'll just chalk it up as a happy coincidence. Without further ado, copy paste!

    Trove PVP: Potential Problems & Solutions

    1. How to Remove Stats from PVP (And why you should)
    2. Gear
    3. Allies
    4. Emblems
    5. Flasks
    6. Mobility
    7. Classes + Modified Abilities
    8. TL;DR

    1. How to Remove Stats from PVP (And why you should)

    One major flaw PVP in MMOs face is gear difference. If you've played World of Warcraft you may remember twinks in Warsong Gulch, that are equipped with superior gear that allows them to utterly destroy opponents their same level. Or the grind to get decent gear to be "competitive" in arenas. Sure, there is matchmaking based on your gearscore, but that restricts the amount of people that can be matchmade. I mean, imagine if games like Street Fighter or Starcraft were gear based. You would have to grind out countless hours, and hope your RNG is good just to get Ryu to do damage to opponents you would otherwise have no problem with beating if it was a test purely on skill. Or playing against a Zerg player with a 20% economy boost.

    By creating PVP to not use gear stats (Damage, Energy Regen, HP%, Jump, ETC.), and rather use base stats for that class, you will find it easier to balance the classes, allow more people to compete, and create a more skill based environment. Plus having people with 21 jump would just be silly. However, it would be nice to be able to customize your class in PVP. One Gunslinger could be high mobility with more jump and speed, sacrificing energy regen and damage. Another Gunslinger could max their damage and HP at the cost of mobility to be a tanky turret. Therefore I have two proposals, and a rough idea of how they could be implemented.

    2. Gear

    The first solution is to keep the type of stat on gear, but adjust the number to be across the board. For example Player A has a sweet Shadow 4 sword with 360 damage, 66 ER, 12 AS, and 76 knockback for lolz (She likes to troll challenges). Player B has a similar sword but only at Shadow 1, with 80 Damage, 12 ER, and 6 AS. Both players are at the same level. Obviously Player A has the better weapon. However, when both players enter a PVP area (Either a world, or a placeable area in a Club World) their gear is equalized to a certain extent. Player A now has 200 damage, 40 ER, 10 AS, and has lost their 4th stat. Player B gets 200 damage, 40 ER, and 10 AS. Player B is still a scrub however, because he keeps wasting his flasks and missing his shurikens. But cheer up, at least it's less about how much flux and eyes you've acquired, and more about skill! Also I totally made up those numbers on the spot, stop thinking about it so much.

    The next solution is simpler: No stats. Fox only, Final Destination. Only base stats at level 20 (Players lower in level will be bumped up to 20). Easier to balance, but reduces player choice. There may be other ways to allow customization though.

    3. Allies

    How about that segway! As an aside: segway mount when? Actually no, don't. Allies would have to change in PVP to keep things balanced. You don't even need to wait for the Test Server to tell you that rare allies like the Shield Servitor, Prowling Shadow, Chronomancer, and Rapt Berserker would be op. Again there are multiple solutions to this problem. First, get rid of ally stats. Easy. Secondly, you could equalize the stats between the rarities. All the bot allies would get 8% damage reduction. Cats would get 1.1% life leach. All the boots would give you +2 jump. Every raptor would give you the move speed and HP regen bonus when a nearby opponent get dunked. And so on.

    The third option would be to have special allies JUST for PVP that can be gained by participating in PVP, or even in the store for a small price. They wouldn't give you just raw damage or HP, but fun passives like life leach, snare, or a short invulnerability when at low HP.

    4. Emblems

    No. Two words: Martial Emblem. A good compromise would be to have special passives instead, but that's something I need to think more about.

    5. Flasks

    Other than not having the current flask emblems, flasks wouldn't change much. Halving the amount of flask charges would make PVP drag on less. PVP flask charges should also not be effected by mastery or patronage. Adding a pause while drinking a flask could create some tactical decisions for the players. Do you face tank the enemy Boomeranger while sucking down some HP, or do you retreat to a safe distance to get yo drank on?

    6. Mobility

    Lowering the speeds on mounts and wings could make chasing enemies easier. Ever play City of Heroes PVP? Yeah. Too much movement means targets are harder to track, escapes are trivial, and catching up to an enemy is an exercise in futility.

    7. Classes + Modified Abilities

    It's already been talked about and theorycrafted in other threads about which class will excel in pvp. Neon Ninjas would be strong and annoying to fight with their root and root refreshing ultimate. The Fae Trickster wouldn't be able to trick anyone with their motionless decoys, and lose their damage bonus the second they get engaged, or someone in the same biome THINKS about engaging them. Ice Sages would just be pure evil with their freeze ultimate. Dracolytes would have great AoE, damage, and tankiness, but could be kited with no problem. Every class should have some kind of damage mitigation ability/closer as their 1 key ability. I'm not going to cover every class, but here are a few suggestions. These abilities would only be functional in PVP.

    Dracolyte - Burnt Path: Burnt Offering, while delivering some solid AoE, would be easy to dodge by other players. Burnt Path causes the Dracolyte to sprout wings (Based on their Ultimate), gain a large move speed bonus, and create a burning trail for as long as their energy lasts. This provides a way for the Dracolyte to get close to their opponent, serves as area denial, and allows them to escape from bad fights while leaving a nasty damaging field for pursuing enemies.

    Pirate Captain - Swap the Deck: Pirate Captain Decoys are great to attract stupid AI Mobs, but won't fool players for a second. Their new ability grants the Pirate Captain the ability to swap places with their First Mate. Sure, your bird will get a bit chewed up, but it's replaceable. You are not.

    Fae Trickster - Fae Party: Instead of creating one clone, this ability creates five in a small area and randomizes where the fae trickster blinks to. These clones would move, strafe, stand still, dance, and jump randomly. Some would even track opponents movement. They would take less hits to take down (Based on the Fae's HP) however. Their opponent could either start hacking up the clones attempting to find the real Quaid, or wait for the Fae Trickster to start attacking. Good Fae Trickster players could purposefully move aimlessly to mimic their clones, sowing more confusion. Fae Party would have a higher energy cost than Blink, or be on a long cooldown so energy could be reserved for glitter bombs. For consistency Fae Party should swap places on the hotbar with Glitter Bomb.

    Boomeranger - Chainhook: Big Bomb is... Okay even in PVE it's not that great. Chainhook on the other hand serves as an escape or a engage. The ability sends out a long grappling hook that pulls opponents to you, or pulls you to blocks if you miss. Unless you purposefully targeted the wall to get away from the nasty Candy Barbarian trying to wreck you. Right? The chain can be dodged somewhat easily due to it's telegraph, but it's hard to dodge after being stunned by a boomerang.

    Boomeranger - Expected Urn: Chickens OP. Or not if they took damage, but then they'd end up being roasted by the Dracolyte, who would then get an HP boost and a "Well Fed" buff. But that would be a pain to code, so a proper solution is to get rid of the chickens and randomness. The Expected Urn drops both cluster bombs and a small heal to the Boomeranger and their allies.

    I may update with more ideas, but those were on the top of my head.

    8. TL;DR

    Stats need equalizing, emblems and allies OP, abilities need to be more PVP friendly. Trion plz kthx.

  2. #2
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    Hey man. I like your thread. However as crude as this sounds. Even if devs balance out classes there will always be a few degenerates that will whine about their pvp experience. This will cause an uproar and an unstable user atmosphere in the game.

    This is why trion is likely to avoid pvp altogether. Although i would really love it if they include it, it just wouldnt look good on their books.

    No really, when i say degenerates, im talking about people who cant handle losses.
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    Bunch of sick twisted freaks

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    Senior Member Suguri's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AshmanFTW View Post
    Sure, your bird will get a bit chewed up, but it's replaceable. You are not.
    are you coming onto me



    personally i have always thought that pvp in trove would be more entertaining if there was a goal that was not just to kill the enemy

    capture the flag, for example, would be fun in trove. that one suggestion that someone posted earlier also sounded like lots of fun.

    not that attacking other people for the sake of killing them is un-fun, but my personal preference is a goal that is less ... directly competitive.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Strashiner View Post
    Even if devs balance out classes there will always be a few degenerates that will whine about their pvp experience. This will cause an uproar and an unstable user atmosphere in the game.
    Pretty much any kind of competitive environment is going to draw out sore losers. But those are just a highly vocal minority. Most people love PVP for the challenge against unpredictable opponents! As long there isn't KDR or Ranked Play it won't attract some of the toxic players from other competitive games. PVP should be a diversion with cool cosmetic rewards, not the main draw of Trove.

    Quote Originally Posted by Suguri View Post
    personally i have always thought that pvp in trove would be more entertaining if there was a goal that was not just to kill the enemy capture the flag, for example, would be fun in trove. that one suggestion that someone posted earlier also sounded like lots of fun. not that attacking other people for the sake of killing them is un-fun, but my personal preference is a goal that is less ... directly competitive.
    There can be a ton of different modes like CTF, Control Points, Free For All, Payload, Team Deathmatch, open world PVP, resource wars, something MOBA inspired where you're trying to get a group of homicidal lollipops to destroy the enemy base, Fort Building & Destroying, etc, but this thread is mostly about the foundation of PVP and balance. Once there is a decent balance, then they can add more fun modes!

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    Senior Member Zipperumpazoo's Avatar
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    I only hope that they won't spend too much development time in balancing PvP or change other aspects of the game to its benefit in the future, PvP should yes be a well thought fun mini-game but this is a casual PvE game by design after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipperumpazoo View Post
    I only hope that they won't spend too much development time in balancing PvP or change other aspects of the game to its benefit in the future, PvP should yes be a well thought fun mini-game but this is a casual PvE game by design after all.
    True, Trove is currently and should always be a game about exploration, fun, creating, and collecting stuff. By balancing out or removing gear it should be easier on the devs part to balance out the classes and lower the barrier of entry.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zipperumpazoo View Post
    I only hope that they won't spend too much development time in balancing PvP or change other aspects of the game to its benefit in the future, PvP should yes be a well thought fun mini-game but this is a casual PvE game by design after all.
    I doubt they will, the devs have said from the very start that if they did PVP it would be gimmicky and Trovian. It will also heavily involve PVE, so those looking for traditional PVP are unlikely to find what they want in Trove.
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