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Thread: Ninja Technique Discussion

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    Senior Member Dusty_Mustard's Avatar
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    Exclamation Ninja Technique Discussion

    Edit: I might just suck at the class. This thread is now for discussing Neon Ninja Technique.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psychobeans View Post
    I mained Neon Ninja for a long time. Here's the secret to playing this class in SA and not dying:

    Dash up to a mob.
    Basic Attack.
    Basic Attack.
    Basic Attack. You now have three rings. High attack speed helps.
    Turn your camera 90 degrees to the left or right.
    Backflip. Because of the camera movement, you will move sideways from the enemy instead of straight back. This dodges every attack in the game, even wind-up punches.
    Fire shurikens.
    Repeat.


    Do this, and you should never, ever die in SA.
    Also, Zeal flask is love, Zeal flask is life. You will die if you run out of energy. Period. Don't run out of energy.

    Your most important stats should be ATTACK SPEED and energy regeneration. You don't need movement speed at all. You want attack speed so that you can fill your rings before the enemy's attack hits you. Pay attention to the enemy's animations and do the camera spin + blackflip maneuver if you feel you are about to be hit.

    If you do all of this correctly, you should make it through an SA without ever taking a huge hit.

    Congratulations, you now know how to play Neon Ninja correctly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Psychobeans View Post
    He's really doing it in the same order that I described. Dash in, basic attack until you have rings, backflip, shurikens, repeat (starting with another dash).

    Literally the most important thing is dodging correctly, so I made this diagram to help explain it:

    This game does not have a dedicated healer.
    Yet we have a class dedicated for crowd control that is melee. This is not good, let me explain why.

    Traditionally crowd control classes are ranged, as if they take damage they die easily. The Neon Ninja dies easily, but it is a melee/close range class.
    In a group situation, if you take a lot of damage and are a melee character you need a healer to keep you in battle, otherwise you are just taking a lot of damage while others are not.
    Considering most of this game you need to be able to solo, having a class that is a squishy melee character with no evasion or healing whatsoever means death (blackflips don't count, since your main attack cancels the loss of agro/invisibility. You can either choose to do backflips, or you can choose to fight the mob and damage it).

    In a U5 SA with two pieces of gear with 50% and 51% max hp, a shield sevitor and common sense you end up having to use flasks to heal on the Ninja, there is no way to avoid it. There is no dodge/evasion tactic in game that allows you to continue fighting with the Ninja since you have to stop attacking for the Backflip ability to pause your receiving damage. If the mob swings and you are within range, you take damage. Since in any SA there are mobs with AOE, if you want to fight in a SA with a Ninja you have to depend on all the Mobs focusing on attacking other players, so that you stay at a distance and attack. Or you give up on Dmg and focus on making all the mod stay still, which may be kind of fun for awhile but for the most part is useless, the mobs you really need to hold still which are teleporting mobs teleport right out of the ninja lock/root.

    If the Mod agros onto you, you are forced to lock it in place and run away. You can't even humor tanking a mob, even with extreme skill or gear. No degree of combination of backflips and fighting works, as to backflip you need to stop attacking for the mob to loose agro or else an attack cancels the evasion for the Ninja. So to stay alive in a U5 Sa if all the mobs are agroed onto you, you can't damage them to the degree that they die in a reasonable speed, cause constantly attacking means they are hitting you, and a Ninja takes far more damage then the Knight or Candy barb, with same gear. Fighting mobs that are ranged? Ninja is done for, you have to constantly backflip and that dosn't cancel agro completely, it just pauses it. Those insects that are ranged in SA's just nuke you to crap since you can't do anything but either run away from them or get close enough to be blow to pieces, Mortars are even worse.

    For a class like the Ninja which looses a significant amount of health with each hit as apposed to the Candy Barb, fighting in any Shadow Arena that has close quarters means that you are most likely going to die, or not be very useful.

    This game is not structured to have a class designed to only be support, as it needs the support of other classes to stay alive.
    Since the Candy Barb can't heal others to any reliable degree anymore, the closest we ever got to a group with enough heals to keep a Ninja partially alive was lost. So now we have a class that can't solo things on its own at what is considered end game, and is for the most part useless in speeding up a SA. While in open areas it might be able to move around enough to survive in a group situation, assuming it never had a mob try to directly attack it, most Shadow Arenas are not large open areas when it really matters (the lava at the center of the sa for example, if your group fights that sa as it is intended all you are going to be doing on your ninja is jumping the entire time, you can't afford to bounce into the lava like a Barb or Knight can.

    Is the ninja fun? Yes. Do people use it? Yes. Is it built completely wrong? Yes as well. It looks cool as hell to play, this is the first game I have ever preferred a melee over a range class as my main. But in a game where most of the time you are a gravestone if you can't hold your own, people usually take a different class. And for me, this means if I want to really help a SA I take a different class, because you can't contribute significant damage in a SA with a ninja, you have to focus most of your time/energy on not dying.


    To close, the backgflip of the Neon Ninja does not completely clear the agro table, it should for the skill to work properly imo. Please make it so I stay invisible for the whole duration of the backflip even if I attack something. And since I am here, please remove the delay between doing a backflip and launching the projectile weapons from that skill. I do a backflip and aim, but by the time the thing launches the projectiles I am already pointed somewhere else, and so they miss. Having a delay of like 15 seconds to wait for it to launch them is really bad for a class where you have to make every microsecond count.

    Also, please make the Ninja's lockdown/root ability also work on teleporting mobs, like a stasis field. Through many years of training the Ninja's ch'i or bodily energy can be used to trap other entities body energy in place, meaning they stop freaking teleporting. He isn't dropping some bear trap on the ground like the Hunter. This change alone would make a Neon Ninja essential in Shadow Arenas, as those bosses that Teleport in the Shadow Dungeons have an excessive amount of health and take days to kill. Avoiding that with a Ninja in the group would make anyone appreciate having them around, even if their damage remained near to useless.



  2. #2
    Senior Member Batman's Avatar
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    The knight seems to be pretty low on fav class lists too . It would be nice to improve his tank purpose . Giving him a shield in one hand and applying Skyrim gameplay with block mechanics . It could be something like this :

    M1 - Basic attack (same as before)
    M2 - Hold to block with a shield (char only takes 30% damage while block is being held , cannot attack while holding block , and only blocks attacks in front of him)
    S1 - Reflect the next strong attack back at the attacker
    U - Loud roar that gains the attention of all nearby mobs for 10s or similar .

    Passive - Stronger version of the current one (Since I took out the jump attack skill)
    Giving Free Class coins through refer a friend
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    Senior Member Tribe's Avatar
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    I love the ninja's attacks and abilities, but I believe he is a bit too squishy as well. I think it might be because I haven't quite learned his melee range yet. I always opt for another class when I do serious shadow dungeons since I die too much with him. I might have geared him wrong too. Who knows... lol

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    Senior Member Dusty_Mustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tribe View Post
    I love the ninja's attacks and abilities, but I believe he is a bit too squishy as well. I think it might be because I haven't quite learned his melee range yet. I always opt for another class when I do serious shadow dungeons since I die too much with him. I might have geared him wrong too. Who knows... lol
    I have as much energy and hp on the class as possible. I would doubt hp regen would make a difference but I haven't tried it to confirm.

    As for the melee attack range change they did, it is nice but like I said it is useless if the mob is trying to beat on you and there is anything around you. I can keep mobs permalocked and away from me that are agroed onto me if the environment is good, but I myself are hardly doing any damage at all during this time, and it is annoying as hell to do properly.

    As for not knowing how to use him, I have seen some people play it a little better then me but some for someone that does a sheer number of Shadow Arenas and knows the tactics by heart, I can't be that far off from the best at the class, and there is no overlooking taking any other class besides the Knight and knowing you are helping and could solo the entire thing if people die, as apposed to the Neon Ninja where good luck if everyone else dies and it isn't a lava map.

    To end, I can almost face-tank in my Ise Sage in U5 SAs but can't on my Neon Ninja, that seems wrong for a caster with no legs to be more hearty then something that is supposed to be a freaking NINJA.

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    That thread tag. I agree though, you can't say you don't want a dedicated healer then have a glass cannon (minus the cannon part) as a dedicated CC.

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    Senior Member TeeKayM's Avatar
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    Those Thread tags though... Made me laugh.

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    Fun class to play, but I gave up on him a long time ago. Not sure why, but I had to watch the poor ninja get shot a few times before I could move on @ gif. Generally I lock the mobs in place and chew away at the life of one on the edge to survive, though that only gets you so far in sa w/range.

    To close, the backgflip of the Neon Ninja does not completely clear the agro table, it should for the skill to work properly imo. Please make it so I stay invisible for the whole duration of the backflip even if I attack something. And since I am here, please remove the delay between doing a backflip and launching the projectile weapons from that skill. I do a backflip and aim, but by the time the thing launches the projectiles I am already pointed somewhere else, and so they miss. Having a delay of like 15 seconds to wait for it to launch them is really bad for a class where you have to make every microsecond count.
    Having the back flip actually remove all aggro permanently would do wonders. The delay has never bothered me much, but combat would feel more fluid if there was no delay.

    Have a feeling, even with these changes, I would still consider it to be support. Being able to get out of the thick of battle properly will still leave it really squishy. It would at least give nn a fighting chance under more circumstances.
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    Senior Member Dusty_Mustard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maledictam View Post
    Have a feeling, even with these changes, I would still consider it to be support. Being able to get out of the thick of battle properly will still leave it really squishy. It would at least give nn a fighting chance under more circumstances.
    If I could spam my backflip while using my basic attack and keep the evasion making me near to untouchable, I would consider it perfectly capable of not being considered Support. You would get pauses in the constant damage allowing you to stay in the fight long enough for your regen or the random barb Ice Cream Cone to keep you alive. At the moment you just take way too much damage overall. It needs to be lowered and I think the mechanics I recommended would keep the class close to their original ideals and goal for it, while allowing me to do more then jump out of agro every time I have a risk of danger, if I want my dps to not have a significant drop on a constant basis.

    Like someone else said, a Glass Cannon that is not ranged doing CC without a Healer makes no sense.

    You would in theory choose to gear the class with Energy Regen at ** on both pieces on ring and weapon, and since you would need Health everywhere still , you would have to balance between Attack Speed and Movement Speed, so you stay withing range of mobs mobs while constantly back flipping. As it is now, you have to jump around like a bunny rabbit and while Yoda clearly can make it work and not loose an edge, I am not so sure about it for those that are not Jedi. The class seems like it would be more fitting for it to actually require using its skill to stay alive, and as I said above, backflippin ain't the way to go if you want things to die based on how it works currently.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dusty_Mustard View Post
    If I could spam my back flip while using my basic attack and keep the evasion making me near to untouchable
    .
    If you can keep the evasion while attacking from a back flip.. Then yes, I would agree that it would no longer be support.
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    Honestly, didnt read your whole reply, but I can solo any lair/dungeon in U5 with my ninja no problem, it's only lvl 34 too. Though it has been a little bit since i have tried to ninja in an SA.

    Not entirely sure how you play your ninja either. For me it's all about the throwing stars and staying constantly stealthed. Rooting here and there if i need a quick break to flask if needed or to lock down a low health mob to kill so i get healed since i use the rap berserk. Guess i'll have to find a U5 SA later and see how well I can do on my own with my ninja.

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