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Thread: High Delve depths have NO unique rewards! POINTLESS!

  1. #1
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    High Delve depths have NO unique rewards! POINTLESS!

    THE PROBLEM

    Why are we rushing to gain more light, to spend 1k crystalline cores, 10k nitro per piece of c4 that we spent hours farming for to do what exactly?

    Kill u10 levi when it can easily be slain w/ max c3 gear? NOPE.

    Delve deep into floor 140, 150, 160, 170 - getting the same loot as floor 115-130. YEP.

    There is no incentive to delve deeper. It doesn't increase your % chance of getting a momento. It doesn't increase your % chance of getting c4.

    A team that is pushing high in challenge delves is likely to get roadblocked and have to try again, breaking consecutive floor clears, so goodbye shadow vault!! Less rewards for trying to do more difficult content, great job devs!

    We can take a private delve portal to floor 113, clear until 130 and get shadow vaults at 115, 118, 121, 124, 127, 130. That is 6 shadow vaults for floors that aren't even difficult for a group without max c3 gear, and they get the same rewards as something that would require 2x the light!

    -------

    THE SOLUTION

    Now, here's where you can fix this. Place a shadow vault on every other floor from 130-149 and place a shadow vault on 150+.

    Take the ******** momento drop-rate and double it for floors 110+. (I presume its 10%? Make it 15 or 20%)

    Take that momento drop-rate and make it (33% for floors 130-149)

    Take that momento drop-rate and make it 50% for floors 150+. If we have to have a full group of near maxed players to clear some bad gen floors, we should be able to receive the best rewards for overcoming that challenge.

    Floors that are 170+ should have triple the droprate of c4.

    That is how you properly provide incentive to reach the deeper delve floors and reward your players for investing significant time and resources to do so.

  2. #2
    the max delve depth is capped by the developers at 156 (you can find this info in the May 12th 2020 patch notes) so most of what you said doesn't really apply at all.

    the deeper delves are supposed to increase the chance of c4. but c4 is still meant to be rare. If anything I wish they would just release the drop % chances of getting gear. that would satisfy me cause I don't think they increase the drop chance enough for the deeper delves.

  3. #3
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    Within the past week, they have posted hot-fix after hot-fix closing exploits that doesn't benefit the players (agreeably most were unintended exploits). Let's have this week of hot-fixes address the architectural failings of the reward system within the higher difficulties of the Delve dungeons. This would directly benefit players.

    Now, the suggestions I made were to increase the frequency of shadow vaults for higher floors. I didn't discuss messing with the % drop-rate of c4 until 170+, of which on that floor everyone in the group should have nearly maxed c4, or at least the weapon. I was able to obtain a c4 approx. every 60-70 shadowy vault, that is 180-210 floors on the current system, for one piece of c4.

    With the implementation of the system I suggested it would be as follows:

    Floors that are 115-129 should have a shadow vault on every third floor just as it is. That is 180-210 floors to get a c4. (Need to increase momento % chance here to 15-20%)
    Floors that are 130-149 should have a shadow vault on every other floor. Therefore, you would have 120-140 floors to get a c4. (Need to increase momento % chance here to 33%)
    Floors that are 150+ should have a shadow vault on every floor. Therefore, you would have 60-70 floors to get c4. (Need to increase momento % chance here to 50%)
    Floors that are 170+ should have triple the droprate of c4. Therefore, you would have 20-25 floors to get c4.

    P.S. Look at leaderboards people have completed floor 169 and were stuck on 170 the last time i checked, I have a portal I can open to floor 183, my alt has a portal at 156 that was almost cleared by 6-7 ppl, I could easily clear with 8 (no one had c4 at the time). We aren't limited to 156, the intent was for the developers to reduce everyone that reached floors 190+ due to pixel exploit be reduced to 156, which they didn't do correctly, using myself as primary evidence of that fact.


    NOTE: I probably should make an additional forum post for this but Perm torches either need a crafting method to create or need their drop-rate significantly buffed because it is a huge gap between players who have/have not. It is estimated to be about .5-.75% chance. That should be increased to 2.5-5% (yes, a 5-10x increase!).

    Why? Because it is old content. And that content could have stand to have a lower rate when it was the only thing to do end-game but you are forcing the player-base to choose between investing in c4 or a perm torch, both of which will take ages to obtain if rng isn't kind.

  4. #4
    Senior Member Hyperiem's Avatar
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    I Really Have to Agree With the OP Here

    My time as a player is valuable. Many game development companies know this. They know that if they can't properly incentivize players for their time with rewards equal in value, they're going to lose players.

    The rewards thus far have not in the slightest bit, felt like they were worth my time. Not momentos, not Crystal Level 4, not any of the banners apart from a select few... Nothing. Originally I thought the concept of Delves would be a great system to have. But ultimately the update was rushed and heavily flawed on release. Given the game's track record that really shouldn't have surprised me. But a lot of the problems I have with Delves is the lack of rewards. Nothing about this update feels rewarding.

    Firstly, the momentos. Where to begin... Just as Insomniadic said, the drop rate is too low for something that gives far too little. And when you toss RNG into the mix, well... it really doesn't end well. Yesterday I put about an hour and a half into delves, got about 4 momentos. Now it should be noted that I currently only have about 7 or so momentos. 2 Of the 4 I obtained that day were duplicates... Duplicates. How on earth did they think adding over +100 momentos was anywhere near a good idea when you can get duplicates? It's the exact same problems Golden Companion Eggs have! An item so rare, so hard to get, and you obtain duplicates from it? Seriously? Golden Companion Eggs should not be allowed to give you duplicates because of their rarity, rather they should function more as an effigy that unlocks whatever you don't have! With momentos it's exactly the same! There are so many to collect, that once you get to your last few you may start getting duplicate after duplicate before getting the one that completes your collection! It just doesn't work. The amount of time invested there is not equal to the value of the item you just got.

    Moving on from there, let's look at another prized item players want. Crystal Level 4. Now in the interest of time, I'll simply take a quote from myself which I posted in another thread regarding the state of the gear.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperiem View Post
    Practically speaking, Crystal Level 4 is not something anyone really needs apart from a niche set of players. The community have been able to handle Leviathans pretty decently on their own Pre-Delves. Post-Delves, it's only gotten easier with the addition of more Light sources and such. To say that you NEED Crystal Level 4 doesn't really hold any real weight unless your goal is either Max Damage/Light or Max Power Rank. Unless any of those are your goals, then getting Crystal Level 4 is really nothing more than a luxury. As far as I'm concerned, many players might want Crystal Level 4. But many more probably don't need it. Not the people who play casually and don't dedicate time to farm endgame content anyhow.
    Realistically speaking, Crystal Level 4 only does one thing and one thing only. Make the Power Creep of the game worse. It doesn't make the game that much easier than players running with Crystal Level 3. And if you don't plan on reaching a higher Depth, then what's the point of the gear? What if anything in this game besides 1 or 2 things, require Crystal Level 4? Leviathans? No, not really. Delves? Only if you want to reach the maximum Depth. Uber-10? It was already a Joke with Crystal Level 2. Shadow Tower? Light doesn't even make a difference so no not even close.

    Again where does Crystal Level 4 play any integral role in the game if at all? It's max level gear with little to no purpose, and that's the worst type of gear.

    Lastly, the Mastery Change. As of Delves, Mastery now has a soft cap. A limit at which you no longer gain benefits to your combat stats and only game magic find and additional power rank thereafter. Now in one way this is good because it allows players to catch up. It makes it easier to handle endgame content faster. But it's also bad because it devalues Mastery as a whole. And the follow up gains from 500 Mastery onward are terrible. + 1 Magic Find and Power Rank? Seriously? At that point, who's going to spend time and effort to get more Mastery past 500?

    Only those with the goal for max Mastery and the milestone rewards, are even remotely going to bother. There needs to be serious incentive to continue getting Mastery Ranks because the milestone rewards, save for a few, are hardly worth the grind. Those stat gains were the only thing it truly had going for it. Now the diminishing gains are a complete joke. And that extra chaos factor every 50 Ranks? Yeah most late-game players are already getting duplicates from chaos chests, so that reward is next to useless.

    As for the Delve Workbench items and those from Rokatan the merchant. Anyone could get those knocked out within the span of a day with the exception of the Balelight Flier Mount which will need at least 2 Inert Geode Wallet Expanders. 1 Of which is locked behind a paywall, and the other behind an obsidian coin. Only one of the 3 can be bought with Inert Geodes. In short, more Geode Mastery for those not already at 100? Great! Except they are far too easy to get. What does that mean? Less playtime from players and less rewards to look forward to.

    I really hope that when the Devs release another update, they'll actually put in a proper amount of polish and shine, because this one was seriously underwhelming. This is just like Geode Caves all over again.
    IGN: Hyperiem |Main Club: Empyrium | Main Classes: Revenant / Vanguardian - Power Rank: +33K / +33K | Total Mastery: +600 | Total Hours: +2400

    R.A.F. - Eager to jump into Trove? New users can hit this link to get a head start! https://trovelive.trionworlds.com/ac...experience=aaf

  5. #5
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    All that above I understand.
    But whats the fix here?

    Making drops better as you get deeper? Why. What do we need the better drops for? To go deeper for the same items?
    The game is currently over once you reach mastery 500 right?

    The game is missing a final boss. Why get gooder?

    Mastery passed 500 should give insane rewards and the final boss room you enter goes to the low man mastery amount to pick the reward table.
    Yes reward the players playing the game... make mastery the most important item in the game not something that means 0.
    Removing the importance of mastery has made this game crap. Why bother.... Who cares what you get after 500 mastery has been reached..

    Ya c4, ya a new MOM.... why does it matter. Game is broken and everyone that put in time to be on the top of the food chain wasted time and money for nothing...

  6. #6
    Let them fix the chances of falling u10 perma torch first. it always falls on the same players. Where is this fairness?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Szmansz View Post
    Let them fix the chances of falling u10 perma torch first. it always falls on the same players. Where is this fairness?
    How many levis do we think it should take? 100 500 1000?
    Figure out that question first.
    Atm I am getting 1 every 500 u10 levis average. Is that the right amount for a end game item? I think so.
    So why not ask for a badge reward at 500 or 1000 u10 levis for people who are not getting the drop?
    If we think its 100 then its not really a end game item is it?
    There needs to be have and have nots in this type of game or why would people do anything.
    Does it really matter anyway these days... Just get to 500 mastery and delete the game as you won...

  8. #8
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    There are people who desire to have more than one perm torch since they can be enchanted for MS or AS, MD or PD.

    Obviously, this is a luxury. I'm not really trying to distract the thread with this but just providing information that some high-end players like to min-max multiple classes. In delves I use DL CB GS. CB is used in delves 160+ if there is no other CB as his perm vacuum is essential for efficient mob clearing. DL is top AOE w/out knockback, and has decent survivability to boot to conserve flasks for DPS usage not to cheat death. Finally, GS is used for bosses. He is unparalleled in that regard as you burn through flasks for CD reduction to have 100% uptime of his ult, uniquely he requires 400%AS under the effects of his ult to reach max dps, every % extra of AS provides that much more dmg, especially when we consider attack frames, but that is well beyond the scope of discussion so I'm moving on now.

    Point being Trove needs to reward those who push the limits in an endless procedural dungeon. We want better c4 drops because we want c4 on multiple classes to reach peak efficency. We want to reach peak efficency to get rewards for delving deeper. There are no rewards however. This is what the problem is. The end-game content (floor 150+ w/out c4 and 170+ w/ c4) lacks end-game rewards. A tiered bump in difficulty should result in a tiered bump in rewards.

    The cost of C4 is horrendous given there is no reasonable method to farm 1k crystalline cores. C2 should provide 3 crystalline cores per loot and C1 should provide 1 crystalline cores per loot. This would give plenty of income for those farming c4 in delves who aren't investing in 5* dungeons. Obviously 5* dungeons would provide lesser caches but crystalline core income needs to be bumped if the cost of c4 is going to stay absurdly high.

    Momento fiasco is something as a collector and someone who invested a lot of time reaching max mastery has been the first challenge that I have finally said I don't think this is worth it. That should speak volumes as there are plenty of other max mastery veterans who are feeling the same way. I gave multiple feedback posts and suggestions on PTS regarding the momentos that were ignored. I said they should add light in delves only.

    Momentos could provide +5 light for uncommon, +10-15 for rare, +20-25 for biome. If they want them to be this difficult to obtain, not make them trade-able, refuse to up the % in higher floors, then they should give something awesome for obtaining beyond just minimal mastery that accumulates to +1MF and +1 PR. However, if all you are willing to provide to players is mastery. Then make it realistically obtainable and fix the percent in higher floors like I suggested and/or make them tradeable.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyntheticToastt View Post
    the max delve depth is capped by the developers at 156 (you can find this info in the May 12th 2020 patch notes) so most of what you said doesn't really apply at all.
    players got past depth 158 with the help of the pixel ally (about doubling their dmg output), so devs pushed everyone back to 156 after the fix, some players still succeeded passing 158 without it that week.

    the reward is supposed to be purple name, but I can see how the complaint could apply to private delves also, the leaderboard 'prizes' are out of touch but they've always have been (flawless contest).

    as for mementos..

    my private runs are around 15% avg, but all the potentials will dry up soon (locked into biomes that are not in rotation, or don't drop at all (primal pit bosses))

    while challenge mode feels like 10%
    These three factors can sour the experience: low drop chance (15~40 runs for one floor), group required for the last 3rd of the floors, the mastery isn't much of a reward (reduced interest from potential group members)
    I'm also uncertain if No Drop exists or those were just bad rolls if people go without a drop in 40 runs

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lunar View Post
    players got past depth 158 with the help of the pixel ally (about doubling their dmg output), so devs pushed everyone back to 156 after the fix, some players still succeeded passing 158 without it that week.

    the reward is supposed to be purple name, but I can see how the complaint could apply to private delves also, the leaderboard 'prizes' are out of touch but they've always have been (flawless contest).

    as for mementos..

    my private runs are around 15% avg, but all the potentials will dry up soon (locked into biomes that are not in rotation, or don't drop at all (primal pit bosses))

    while challenge mode feels like 10%
    These three factors can sour the experience: low drop chance (15~40 runs for one floor), group required for the last 3rd of the floors, the mastery isn't much of a reward (reduced interest from potential group members)
    I'm also uncertain if No Drop exists or those were just bad rolls if people go without a drop in 40 runs
    I also wondered if a mount is on those floors... but it wouldn't make sense because the ones we don't have a drop for aren't the corresponding ST bosses. I still believe the mounts are broken and are to be found in Shadow cache vaults that you have to open w/ delve key.

    Update: it took me 48 runs to finally get it. I am appreciative of those who tagged along during some of the runs. This isn't something I want to repeat ever again. I did it because red pirrot capt has two momentos Red pirrot captain #1 and red pirrot captain #2 (Players started designate the #1 and #2 based on order of appearance in the momento list). HOWEVER, BOTH ARE CALLED - "Momento: Red Pirrot Captain"!

    In the coming weeks, the people who care about max mastery and who share info on which challenge floor drops which momento each week, if they already collected red pirrot captain #1 and #2, it will be impossible to tell which one it is. I wanted to take advantage of the lack of any guesswork for this week. With that done I now can rest as there are no other momentos with duplicate names. Thank god.

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