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  Click here to go to the first Trove Team post in this thread.   Thread: Leviathan response and the Manifesto of Lore

  1. #1
    Junior Member Voidexus's Avatar
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    Post Leviathan response and the Manifesto of Lore

    aight so my name is voidexus and this is the manifesto of trove, dont come to Geode tomorrow

    Leviathans are nice, the design is cool etc. Its like a usual raid boss in an MMO and thats cool and really nice. Didn't work right though!
    Lets start from the top

    1. Light Requirement: The Leviathans, even though they are meant to be raid bosses, their light requirement is rather high for how easy they are to encounter. Alongside that, their health makes the fight sluggish and it is just a race of how many times you can get reinvited if you die. It is also a major problem in that the Leviathan's light requirement, specifically u8, does not reflect the uber at all. See: Ifera

    2. Leviathan Loot: Secondly, the loot system is horrendous. First off, not only do the Leviathans promote teamwork, the teamwork does not promote doing the Leviathans.
    What this means is, the loot is 8 people randomly, but you usually bring more than 8 since DPS is a huge factor, meaning not everyone gets loot. It should have been a vault chest like the Shadow Tower Chests.

    3. Leviathan Abilities: What drugs were you on when you made the abilities? U8 Leviathan (Lobstroso)'s ability is nonsense for the uber it is in. For starters, the spinny whirlygig things outdps the u9 leviathan's ability for some reason, and take a while to kill (forcefully 1 damage), and alongside this, they deal so much damage that bypasses about 1.5m. U9 ability is fair since its mostly a boot.
    U10 ability (the one shot) should have more windup or a larger way to know its going to happen. There has to be a better way to do this.

    4. Torches: Needless to say, the torches shouldn't decay, instead it should give less light. For such a minor light boost, the torches should last longer. It makes no sense to force people to grind the bosses over and over for a daily torch to turn into a weekly, then offer the non-decaying torch that gives less light than the weekly.

    5. The mounts: kinda like them ngl

    6. Biggest part, Where is the lore? Almost half of the statements involving the Leviathans got retconned as soon as they came out, and it seems like the Lore for these Leviathans was tossed out at a whim. Unless I'm seeing things, I do not understand where the lore for these Leviathans came from.

    By the way, if there is a North, is there a South?
    the epitome of git gud

  2. #2
    1. The necessaqry Light stat is perfectly fine the way it is now with Leviathans. Since you did not need any Light at all before this update and you was able to solo a 5 star u10 dungeon with no boosts on Light. This update makes people actually *want* to have gem boosts into Light.


    Talking about health of those and the overall length during fights: It is meant as a boss that does not die in less than 10 seconds like DotM goes, but give an actually challenge that keep people buisy. And most importantly: you NEED other people to fight those. For the very first time in Trove history, it is a thing that you can no longer solo.


    Light itself is not the issue here, since even an 8 man group can kill a u10 thing with a decent time if they just did prioritize Light over ST dps. Nerfing those bosses would take away a very important piece of endgame challenge here. Something that you actually struggle with, even in endgame.


    Since this update, you need to have 2 coefficients: one for Leviathans and one for ST.




    2. I fully agree with the looting issue. It is just stupid the way it works right now due to the nature of an open world boss fight that a whole army of players can join. Here are multiple ways to solve this thing. But at the same time, Trion/Gamigo should be clearer how they actually want these fights to be: Is it meant as a large player number fight where everyone attacks and contribute with a group like nothing else in Trove before? Or is it meant as elite thing that is supposed to be a fight for 8 people at most?


    Here are some solutions:

    -As suggested before instead of a Box we get a Vault, just like in Everdark or in Shadow Tower. This could be opened with a key that uses Cosmic Gem dust and/or new Geode Key fragments to craft. Like this, everyone inside the boss room is guarantueed to get loot.

    -Have only people who match the min Light necessary to damage the Boss be able to get Loot. Which would be around 5000 in U10. Like this, only people who *can* help damage-wise during the fight are able to get rewards, to avoid leeching. Though, this does not solve situations where there are just too many people eligable, if it is a limit of 8 players.

    -Simply rise the limit of players from 8 to - for example - 40 people that can get loot. This will only affect Leviathan chests though.

    -Have the first 8 people who damaged a boss be the ones that are able to get loot. This will reset only when the boss despawns. This solution should be taken, if developers wanted to make a more elite fight for 8 people instead of a community fight with a whole army of Trovians.




    3. Boss abilities should be a thing that players need to find ways around. As such, it *has* to be challenging. If those Leviathans would be just big punchbags without dangers, it makes the fight dull and boring. For example, Darknik Is one of the most interesting fights in Trove since you have to watch and react to where the fire goes, when the rocket comes etc. Once you learned the tricks for Leviathan, it will also become pretty easy. One hint I can give you: dont stay inside spinning adds At the same time, those adds can be eliminated pretty easy by SHs or Dracos inside the group. I love when you need at least some sort of tactic.




    4. Torches' Light values are fine the way they are now. So a daily u10 Torch adds 750 Light, the weekly one adds 900 Light and the permanent u10 Torch adds 825 Light. But having the permanent give a value between daily and weekly makes perfect sense: Because this does encourage a player that already got his permanent one to still keep fighting each week and adds more long-time value into this update. If the permanent one would give mroe light than the weekly, then no player that got it would bother to keep helping others once he got all mastery out of this update.


    But what can definitelly need a change is what drops people can get from Leviathans. Currently, we get a few pieces of epquipment and 1 Torch and sometimes rare Mounts. But once you got your Torch and mounts, you wont really need Leviathans any more. And c3 drop rate does not really seem to be a thing right now. But this could also be missleading by not getting any loot to begin with. But give us other things, too, out of it. Let us introduce Leviathan-Pinatas that will randomely spawn while opening the Boss Chest, or add multiple of those chests that 5 star dungeons drop.


    Just make Leviathans feel more rewarding, so people want to keep doing those even in a half year.




    5. Never got a mount myself. Too often there are too many people so I end up empty *shrugs*




    6. There is lore? xD




    Edit:
    7. Leviathan Hitboxes and missing damage check notifications are other issues.
    Too many people just shoot the top part of Leviathans, since it is obviously the visible thing and their shots go straight through these bosses. Would it be possible to make only the hit box larger without changing Leviathan's attack range? It would be better to hit too much of an enemy rather than too little. Since currently you will only deal damage when you hit the (feet?) of Leviathans; or the floor below the centre, even though the Leviathan performs a spinning animation that makes it look like jumping though, the hitbox does not leave the ground.


    Another indicator that reduces confusion a lot would be a notification that players will see when their shot does connect to the hitbox of an enemy, but due to insufficient Light, the player deals no damage. Currently we just have no information at all, just as if this attack would have missed the enemy entirely.

    It would be really cool if we get something like "Absorbed" or just a "0" when attacks connect but don't deal damage.





    Conclusion:
    I like this update very much so far: The adventurine grind became much more endurable, quests start to feel like something that will not stop you from progressing, Leviathans did *finally* add a long needed endgame into Trove and fishing got re-integrated in a non-tedious way.


    However, it is just the Leviathan part of this update that needs some rework to fit the large number of players in a live environment. Since on a live server you hae to either limit the fight to 8 people or include much frustration to those 30 people who got nothing out of the fight.


    New gardening allies are a temporary way to boost gardening activity, but this will melt down again once those new Allies have been collected.

  3. #3
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    Lightbulb Suggestion for Leviathan Loot - Finders Keepers

    Agree with Holy. Well written post!


    My two cents:
    How about we give the one who found the levi a fighting chance to get the loot?

    For example: Press "e" to claim either on the skull itself or some other object that then summons the skull.

    Then you start it as normal.

    When levi dies, he/she who claimed it gets loot + 7 others.

    /Z

  4.   This is the last Trove Team post in this thread.   #4
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    Howdy Trovians!
    We appreciate your feedback about the latest content update - Into the Deep! We welcome it and we will keep it in mind for further debate as the Community feedback is always most valuable for Trove Team

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
    Howdy Trovians!
    We appreciate your feedback about the latest content update - Into the Deep! We welcome it and we will keep it in mind for further debate as the Community feedback is always most valuable for Trove Team

    Love the renewed commitment to the forum from you guys.


    Keep up the good work!

  6. #6
    Senior Member TheDeadEye's Avatar
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    I just wish there was a bit more to the crafting of torches. Instead of crafted torches decaying, they should have been a component towards an even stronger version that combined all 3 types of torches. That was it would feel like you are working toward a tangible goal, rather than "oh, it's Monday--guess I have to start all over again...."
    Woo, husband of AJo | Mastery: 700+ | President of Garden of Wool | Alpha - Knight Supporter




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    So i do not see one of my concern regarding this update... (Origin portal...)
    I'll say my + and - from this update.

    +
    *End Game boss, actually need a team to defeat.
    *A reason to be maxed Light
    *Adventurine is easier to come by especially for new players.
    *We can enjoy a little more our hard worked gems :P

    -
    *Light requirement for the Leviathan are not said anywhere, my GS is at 4.9k Light i deal almost no damage to a U10 but with my DL at 5.5k i deal 10 time more. So we all assume it's 5k minimum for U10 Leviathan: Please add in the Atlas a description saying what light requirement is needed for Leviathan.
    *A few peoples above light requirement do all the work to kill a Leviathan (especially U9/U10) and we leave the battle with no rewards because some low geared get the loot that we worked hard for it.
    *The quantity of Leviathan dungeons seems a little too low for me... sometime i can fly for over an hour to find one. It's harder to find one than finding a deep sea dragon, because the dragon can also spawn without a dungeon... But Leviathans don't.
    *Only 8 players receive the chest's drop, and a feedback i would give for this one would be a like-s.tower vault. Key fragments could be gather by doing Topside dungeon, and 5* would give cracked keys instead of fragment and 5 would be require to craft the key (like the class key) but 200 fragment to craft the key.

    See video for the 2 next...:
    *The Leviathan "Ifera" does a spinning 1 hit kill that bypass death-defying. We have no time to react to the attack that we die before we dodge or drink a potion that has shield emblem... Edit: I found out it spin once attack then the second spin is the death-defying bypass, it took me time to notice this. So i wouldn't be surprise that many close-fight class players have yet to figure this out because this is barely noticeable the little dark beam in the middle when there is 4 GS's blast particle over it lol. If you could make something more visible i think it would work for me.
    *This issue is somewhat new, because those potions now have a very good use against those boss. Origin Portal Potion always generate at the center of the map, which can sometime be an issue, sometime i will also respawn at the center of the map upon dying, and sometime we spawn 9001years away from our portal...
    https://youtu.be/Pm34dG2PT6A

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhi View Post
    Howdy Trovians!
    We appreciate your feedback about the latest content update - Into the Deep! We welcome it and we will keep it in mind for further debate as the Community feedback is always most valuable for Trove Team
    Thank you for taking the time to read and elevate this discussion up to the dev team. I really enjoyed most aspects of the Into the Deep update.

    There are only two issues I've found thus far that may be intended or unintended:

    The collect glacial/shapestone/formicite ore quests do not share progress when collected by someone next to you, ie if both players were approaching the same ore deposit and one bombed first, only that character would get progress despite both characters looting ore in their inventory.

    If this is by design: Why does the primordial flame ore outpost quest work as I would expect it is intended where the ore when mined will benefit all players who receive the loot from it being mined?

    I'm anticipating this has something to do with pinatas being used to complete quests? I'm only speculating.

    ---

    2nd topic is something that most have already addressed and that is the need for a Shadow Tower style player instanced chest that generate when a leviathan is killed.

    Much like the class gem dungeons from Shores of the Everdark. Just do a quick palette swap on the chest itself if desired.

    The keys could be made with cosmic dust and eclipse keys (maybe add in forge-fragments to the recipe?)

    Cosmic dust needs a sink so bad. Within the time u10 has been released, I have 25k u10 cosmic gem boxes that are unopened and 1.4mil cosmic dust (While I am a endgame player - I know that others quickly exhaust the use of cosmic dust as its not used in crafting gem augments)

  9. #9
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    @Voidexus Just keep in mind we still don't have the primordial cosmic dragon (10% cosmic gem stat boost - up to 322 extra light) or Crystal Rings (probably 650 to 1300 depending on dev's perspective of the amount of light being closer to the light value of c3 armor or weapon).

    Both items will boost our Light and will likely be capping at 8-9k light once these items are added instead of 6.8-7.5k light (depending if you are using Beserk Battler or not)

    TLDR: There doesn't need to be a nerf to bosses as we will keep getting stronger as more sources of light are introduced. We will likely have 3-4 maxed GS killing the u10 boss within 4-6min once we get up to that light level projected above.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Insomniadic View Post
    We will likely have 3-4 maxed GS killing the u10 boss within 4-6min once we get up to that light level projected above.

    We already are at this point in game. I had been part of multiple runs with people beeing 'just over 6k' out of 6,7k possible base light. And it is not clear if those people all had berserk battlers. And just like this, the fight ended in less than 300 sec (5 minutes).


    Now... if just everyone had specialized Leviathan gear - max light and berserk battler and dps - then it would be easy to hit that sub 4 min mark already.


    No... I do fully agree that those Levis do not need any kind of nerf in health or darkness, if we have all necessary ressources already inside the game.


    There are other changes that can be made though: like an unavoidable loss of Fae passive by getting a room-wide freeze or poision attack. Getting damage is okay, but it feels unfair to lose the passive to something unavoidable. If it is actually avoidable, then nevermind I said anything

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