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Thread: Nerf crystal 3 rarity

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    Senior Member weltandmelt's Avatar
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    Nerf crystal 3 rarity

    Crystal 3 seems like it is to RNG based, after tons of hours of grinding, in total ive only found 3 c3 items, and i was talking to some one else whos farmed a lot less and has gotten more c3 items.
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    Member Hyperiem's Avatar
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    I actually like where C3 is right now for the most part so I'm against this.

    Crystal Level 3 is supposed to be the end all be all of Gear. The best possible equipment you can get. If that's the case, why make it easier to find? It should be gear that only the most dedicated should be willing to farm for, not something that anyone can come across. Do some people get lucky and find it more often? Sure. Does that mean just because others are having a rougher time it should be changed? No. Not really. If you get lucky and manage to get a drop then hey congrats to you buddy. If you tend to find it frequently then what are you gonna do? You're just lucky, plain and simple. Ordinarily though, not tons of people are going to be that lucky. I myself have found enough C3 items to make 2 full sets for 2 separate classes. And that's after 2 weeks of just farming like crazy. That means that I'm just not lucky. I had to put in tons of my own time in order to get them, completing dungeon after dungeon.

    Another case is the upgrade requirements. Not a point you brought up, but again, you want the best gear in the game with the best upgrades possible? You gotta work for it and farm those materials.

    There's a reason some players might just stick to C1 or C2. The difference between those 2 and C3 is that they're much easier to find and provide near the same quality of stats when fully upgraded, all while coming with a cheaper cost. The increase in PR for example, is so small it might not be worth it some, at least for a time. In fact that difference is just less than 200 PR apart. For a few, it might not even be worth it all.

    Sorry man but if you want the best you gotta put time into it. That's how it works. If you're really desperate, use a Magic Find build. You'll be indirectly upping your chances since you'll be getting tons more crystal drops. While Magic Find doesn't affect the level, the more Crystal Items you get, the more likely just ONE of those is bound to be Level 3.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hyperiem View Post
    I actually like where C3 is right now for the most part so I'm against this.

    Crystal Level 3 is supposed to be the end all be all of Gear. The best possible equipment you can get. If that's the case, why make it easier to find? It should be gear that only the most dedicated should be willing to farm for, not something that anyone can come across. Do some people get lucky and find it more often? Sure. Does that mean just because others are having a rougher time it should be changed? No. Not really. If you get lucky and manage to get a drop then hey congrats to you buddy. If you tend to find it frequently then what are you gonna do? You're just lucky, plain and simple. Ordinarily though, not tons of people are going to be that lucky. I myself have found enough C3 items to make 2 full sets for 2 separate classes. And that's after 2 weeks of just farming like crazy. That means that I'm just not lucky. I had to put in tons of my own time in order to get them, completing dungeon after dungeon.

    Another case is the upgrade requirements. Not a point you brought up, but again, you want the best gear in the game with the best upgrades possible? You gotta work for it and farm those materials.

    There's a reason some players might just stick to C1 or C2. The difference between those 2 and C3 is that they're much easier to find and provide near the same quality of stats when fully upgraded, all while coming with a cheaper cost. The increase in PR for example, is so small it might not be worth it some, at least for a time. In fact that difference is just less than 200 PR apart. For a few, it might not even be worth it all.

    Sorry man but if you want the best you gotta put time into it. That's how it works. If you're really desperate, use a Magic Find build. You'll be indirectly upping your chances since you'll be getting tons more crystal drops. While Magic Find doesn't affect the level, the more Crystal Items you get, the more likely just ONE of those is bound to be Level 3.
    You really don't get his message do you?
    No one minds putting in the work it's the rng which is just totally stupid.
    Someone can farm 100 hours and get nothing and someone else can farm 1 hour and get 2, this is a broken mechanism plain and simple.
    You can definitly call me endgame but I gave up on C3, just no luck in this game whatsoever so never going to get them, same with the Geode companions, such an incredible ammount of golden eggs and still 3 rares I don't have.
    Tons of doubles, same goes for C3 equipment, found about 6 in total (with hundreds of hours , farming a "magic find" build as you say), 1 hat and 5 faces, nothing else.

    Droprates in this game are broken and cannot get fixed simply by upping droprate, they need an alternative way to get the items (like upgrading C2 to C3!!!).
    And effigies for the companions or something.

  4. #4
    Member Hyperiem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tismij View Post
    You really don't get his message do you?
    No one minds putting in the work it's the rng which is just totally stupid.
    Someone can farm 100 hours and get nothing and someone else can farm 1 hour and get 2, this is a broken mechanism plain and simple.
    You can definitly call me endgame but I gave up on C3, just no luck in this game whatsoever so never going to get them, same with the Geode companions, such an incredible ammount of golden eggs and still 3 rares I don't have.
    Tons of doubles, same goes for C3 equipment, found about 6 in total (with hundreds of hours , farming a "magic find" build as you say), 1 hat and 5 faces, nothing else.

    Droprates in this game are broken and cannot get fixed simply by upping droprate, they need an alternative way to get the items (like upgrading C2 to C3!!!).
    And effigies for the companions or something.
    I understand the message just fine.

    However, treating this as an issue of RNG is nonsense when the entire game is built precisely around an RNG and Grind Model. That's how this game works. It's specifically why I said if you get more C3 items frequently, especially ones you can use, It's because you're incredibly lucky. I already stated that people are going to have a rough time and you shouldn't expect to get anything any time soon. Changing the game in any aspect because a few people have it bad is NOT the way to run your game no matter what model you use. You need to look at the player base as a whole and paying extra attention to those who've played long enough to know what they're talking about. It's already bad enough that Crystal introduced the largest power creep I've seen in a while. Nerfing C3 drop rates is just going to exacerbate the problem.

    It's quite understandable that the Devs are using an RNG/Grind Model in order to keep you playing longer. It may not be a Model that I agree with but it's the one the game uses. We just have to put up with that. Even more so considering this is endgame gear we're talking about, that if I may remind you, has been much more easily obtainable farm wise than Stellar. The fact that you don't need a high Magic Find just to get C3 as a potential drop is already stacking more in your favor than you realistically deserve.

    If I recall correctly, you can also potentially obtain Stellar with a low Magic Find, but even with over 1500 Magic Find, objectively speaking, your odds aren't great. Given the fact that you need to invest time into collecting dragons or investing stats from gear while C3 doesn't need either... Ironically you have it pretty good actually as any player can start farming C3 right off the bat as soon as they get a class with the requirements (which also aren't very high to begin with) to enter Uber-10.

    As for your other statements, having the ability to level up Crystal from Level 1 to 2, to 3, would just make those who had to grind for it feel like they just got slapped in the face. Using their time to upgrade it rather than get it as a drop, which would have undoubtedly helped perpetuate a "pay to win" model where players would just buy whatever materials they need with Credit Pouches and whatnot.

    As for the effigies and companions, there's already a somewhat recent thread on the issue and it's been up for a while now. I suggest you take a look at it if you want more details and haven't seen it already. Here you go.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Arctech's Avatar
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    Since Gamigo is now in charge, I guess I'll talk about this again. "I know Warcraft 3, Dota 2, and Final Fantasy make use of something called a Pseduo Random Distribution. Simply put, the probability of success on the nth trial is given by P(n) = c*n where c is a constant and n resets to 1 after each success. The constant is lower than the average probability of success, which decreases the chances of getting too lucky compared to a normal distribution. Since c*n can reach 100%, this prevents you from getting too unlucky. P(n) can also be broken down into a system of equations with different constants for different ranges of n. You can find out more by searching up on it."


    This helps to deal with the problem of having too much variance in RNG. More variance leads to more inequality. There needs to be a stronger correlation between the amount of work you do and the reward you get. Introducing a new currency also helps but seems like more work for developers.
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    I agree that there needs to be another craftable way to get C3. I also think it should be very hard as it is endgame gear.

    maybe 50k nitro, 5000 crystaline core, and 30k fragments PER UPGRADE

  7. #7
    Senior Member weltandmelt's Avatar
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    im all fine with it being rare or hard to get, but at its current rate it is near impossible, last time i got one was 3 months ago,
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    Senior Member VoltStar's Avatar
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    Its fine where it is TBH. C3 gear is not mandatory at all and only gives you a relatively small boost in power compared to what Gems give you. You can do all the game's content just fine with upgraded C2's. Unless you're trying to push for purple name, then you'll need C3. But if thats the case you'll have the Magic Find to get C3's anyway.



    Its fine if a game has rare gear thats end game and hard to get, its a chase item meant to keep you invested. You dont NEED it, but its nice when you get it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VoltStar View Post
    Its fine where it is TBH. C3 gear is not mandatory at all and only gives you a relatively small boost in power compared to what Gems give you. You can do all the game's content just fine with upgraded C2's. Unless you're trying to push for purple name, then you'll need C3. But if thats the case you'll have the Magic Find to get C3's anyway.



    Its fine if a game has rare gear thats end game and hard to get, its a chase item meant to keep you invested. You dont NEED it, but its nice when you get it.
    fine will try again, hard to get is not a problem, luck based is!
    If something is hard to get for everybody then fine but now some people get lots of C3 and some get none, I don't like casino's and I don't like gambling, this needs to get fixed!
    What Arctech said could also be a solution but there needs to be a way to prevent to much bad luck without making it too easy to get and there are several ways to do this, just remove some rng from the game it is not an acceptable game mechanic for any game.

  10. #10
    Senior Member VoltStar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tismij View Post
    fine will try again, hard to get is not a problem, luck based is!
    If something is hard to get for everybody then fine but now some people get lots of C3 and some get none, I don't like casino's and I don't like gambling, this needs to get fixed!
    What Arctech said could also be a solution but there needs to be a way to prevent to much bad luck without making it too easy to get and there are several ways to do this, just remove some rng from the game it is not an acceptable game mechanic for any game.

    If you dont like gambling Trove might not be the right game for you. And asking the devs for less RNG is going to get you nowhere. Trove is built on RNG stacked on top of RNG.
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