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  Click here to go to the first Trove Team post in this thread.   Thread: Tamed geode eggs? Wow. Even worse than bronze eggs. Why to not bother.

  1. #21
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    simply because of some of the environmental atributes of area's like sunken sunvault the jelotyl ect arnt even worth farming for the eggs if u go for bronze aswell as most eggs an hr is running to t4 or t5 and looting those area's for eggs, where in sunvault you die quicker due to increase environmental damage making the runs last shorter ect meaning u spend more time running to the t4-5 area for best eggs an hr even with assisting the companions as stated above the rate is so low even if they have a slightly higher rare rate it still doesnt make up for the amount of eggs u loose an hr doing these less efficient area's because of the area alone let alone the rates!

  2.   Click here to go to the next Trove Team post in this thread.   #22
    Developers Phantasie's Avatar
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    Hi Arion

    Just like Meowser said, thanks for gathering this data. We certainly appreciate it when players do this (especially on PTS, its a partial goal of that environment).

    I did want to comment on a few things though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arion4K View Post
    I was suspecting they secretly improved the odds after that patch, but let's assume they didn't and the real issue was the looting range from the critter to get the tamed egg.
    We simply don't do this. There's just no win. I've worked at Trion/Gamigo since 2012. Never once have I heard someone suggest we sneak in a gameplay change!

    (Though we may not announce changes that contribute to cheating, fraud, etc - things that could be used against us by cheaters).

    At the very (very) least, you guys have the client. You can do tests just like you did to prove unannounced changes.

    That said, we are a smaller team - and we are human - mistakes can happen. For example:
    • We do miss changes. Behind the scenes, Trove is entirely stored in Version Control (we use Perforce, similar to Git, etc). Every change is submitted and tracked (there are 100's of thousands of them). Each of those changes has a description. That description includes a player facing Release Note that goes into the patch notes. The actual patch could be days after the release note was written, or months. We are human, and sometimes that could get missed, or the note is no longer accurate change. Again, we have QA and tools to catch this, but mistakes do happen.
    • As we get closer to releasing a patch, we need to cherry pick which fixes are going to make their way to you to avoid destabilizing the build with redundant or future changes (into our testing, certification and production branches, to use technical jargon). Some changes are dependent on others in non obvious ways. We have tools to mitigate this, but again, mistakes happen. Even trickier, one change could inadvertently pull in part of another change or behave differently because some seemingly unrelated change did not make its way into the patch.
    • etc

    To a player the above would appear like we secretly nerfed something , when in fact we didn't

    (PS: I greatly simplified the above. If anyone is highly technical, please don't assume this 100% describes our branch/SCM strategy and call me on it )

    Quote Originally Posted by Arion4K View Post
    And please, @devs, don't just assume the players are stupid, in this case we were both right, my testing was correct at 1.88% and your rate is 5-6% , but the variable that was conflicting was unknown at the time. We have to look at this objectively to figure out what the interference might be.
    We certainly don't assume this. You did some great research, showing amazing dedication to our game - I'm always in awe when I see players like you. Your conclusion about the actual drop rate was just incorrect, and that was pointed out (The counterpart is your research could just have easily revealed an actual problem, which we would have been grateful for).

    --Phantasie

  3. #23
    Senior Member Arion4K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantasie View Post
    Your conclusion about the actual drop rate was just incorrect, and that was pointed out (The counterpart is your research could just have easily revealed an actual problem, which we would have been grateful for).
    Let me explain this again, you still don't seem to see the issue I am presenting.

    Summary of the real actual issue: The looting range of the tame egg is too short and for fast players it means they will be out of range and not receive the egg, therefore reducing the overall amount of eggs they get, therefore reducing the perceived % drop chance of the egg.
    Solution: The looting range for the tame eggs has to be increased.

    I have done 2 testing methods, specifically to showcase the issue at hand (looting range).

    Common factors in both tests:
    - 4-minute runs
    - only in moon cave (the purple one)
    - same maxed gear, the same companion equipped
    - registered the number of critters helped
    - registered the number of eggs gained

    Specific factor to the 1st testing method
    - full speed. I was going at full speed.
    - Which means, while I am flying, I drop the bait on the critter and I DO NOT WAIT, I go fast.

    Specific factor to the 2nd testing method
    [x] I go slow, which means:
    - I see a hoppet
    - I get close to him in a range of 3x3
    - I throw the bait
    - I stay near him UNTIL IT DESPAWNS
    - After it despawns (aka I don't see it anymore) then I proceed to move

    So, the only difference between the 2 testing methods is the range between me and the critter at the moment of the egg spawning.

    I have observed the following:
    - I see critter
    - I throw bait near it
    - critter goes into dance animation
    - gives me the crystal chests
    - AFTER IT DESPAWNS -> that is when the function for the tame egg entity spawn is called (if it happens to proc)
    [x] the EGG visually spawns from the critters coordinates somewhere above it [I can visually see the egg]
    [x] the EGG then visually travels from the critters coordinates to MY coordinates
    [x] IF I am in range for the EGG, I will RECEIVE IT in my inventory
    [x] IF I am not in range for the EGG, I will NOT RECEIVE IT in my inventory

    Legend
    - left is the 1st scenario
    - right is the 2nd scenario

    - green circle is the tame egg looting range
    - green dot is the critter

    - blue dotted line is my path
    - blue dot is me


    - The scenario above happens at the moment when the function for spawning the tame egg happens and that happens after the critter does the dance animation and despawns.
    - dance animation -> despawn -> tame egg spawn

    So, now you see the difference?
    - in the 1st scenario, the speed one, I DO NOT wait for the critter to finish the animation, so therefore a lot of times I will be OUT of the looting range when that egg spawns.
    - in the 2nd scenario, I AM ALWAYS waiting near it, therefore I AM ALWAYS in the looting range.

    Now, let's go back to my numbers, since you claim they are incorrect, but they are actually correct.

    Scenario 1 - Speed mode / Far Away

    - The reason why it's so low (1.88%) is because I was not in the range of the egg when it spawns at all times

    Scenario 2 - Slow mode / Close-range

    - The reason this rate is higher is because I WAS ALWAYS in the range for the egg to reach me, therefore the % has increased overall.

    Now do you see what the issue is? And why my 1.88% IS CORRECT in those circumstances.

    TL;DR : Please extend the looting range for the tame egg, so that we don't have to literally waste time camping near the critters, when we could go full speed (because that is the point of maxing the gear and companion level)

    I hope there is no more confusion now.

    IGN : Autumn| Leader of Laezaria

  4. #24
    Senior Member TheIgmo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arion4K View Post
    TL;DR : Please extend the looting range for the tame egg, so that we don't have to literally waste time camping near the critters, when we could go full speed (because that is the point of maxing the gear and companion level)
    Just to make sure it's highlighted, because quirks like this loot system are easy to overlook but can cause a lot of frustration for players. Thank you for the info on this Arion.

    Edit: another suggestion I saw in the thread that should be noted: just directly deliver special drops like eggs straight to the inventory rather than the drop and fly-to loot method.

  5. #25
    Member smellyalater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheIgmo View Post
    Just to make sure it's highlighted, because quirks like this loot system are easy to overlook but can cause a lot of frustration for players. Thank you for the info on this Arion.

    Edit: another suggestion I saw in the thread that should be noted: just directly deliver special drops like eggs straight to the inventory rather than the drop and fly-to loot method.

    I agree, tag all players around the critter at x distance, when the critter is hit by a treat/blanket/healing thingy and once the bar is full, give everyone who was tagged the reward directly.



    This eliminates all the problems I can see currently, as well as the original problem back when critters were first introduced, where we saw the exact same issue with the critter boxes.
    --> Stats <-- (Updated 21/01/18)

  6. #26
    Senior Member Arion4K's Avatar
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    When I stated my order of events that was based on my visual capacity in real-time so it could've been wrong, but I have recorded and went frame by frame to really see the order of events.
    I was REALLY LUCKY, as lucky as you can possibly get.

    - I got the egg in the 1st critter, lmao!

    Link : https://www.dropbox.com/s/nku9mxhvz8...t-try.flv?dl=0

    So, the order is like this (basically what I stated in my previous post)
    - I see the critter
    - I throw the bait
    - the HP bar is going from 0 to 50% to 100%
    - the dance animation starts
    - the crystal cache spawns at critters coordinates

    - the crystal cache travels to my coordinates
    - the inventory gets updated with the cache
    - the message with the crystal cache appears on the right

    - >>>>>>>>>> the critters does the FULL DANCE ANIMATION <<<<<<<<<<
    - the critter despawns
    - the TAME EGG SPAWNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    - the inventory gets updated with the egg

    - the message with the egg appears on the right


    IF the egg spawn event would be put when the crystal cache is spawned then it would fix this whole issue, because we cannot possibly get out of range in that short of a period of time.

    IGN : Autumn| Leader of Laezaria

  7. #27
    Member smellyalater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arion4K View Post
    When I stated my order of events that was based on my visual capacity in real-time so it could've been wrong, but I have recorded and went frame by frame to really see the order of events.

    So basically, we have an issue with range and the time that we recieve the items are also messed up, I'd imagine both to be quite simple changes in priority stack and then just increasing the range of looting.
    --> Stats <-- (Updated 21/01/18)

  8. #28
    Senior Member Arion4K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellyalater View Post
    So basically, we have an issue with range and the time that we recieve the items are also messed up, I'd imagine both to be quite simple changes in priority stack and then just increasing the range of looting.
    "Simple" is subjective, we don't know how their system works. We can only present the ISSUES and they have to come up with solutions since they know how their own system works.

    But the issue is real and we need a fix for it.

    IGN : Autumn| Leader of Laezaria

  9.   Click here to go to the next Trove Team post in this thread.   #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Arion4K View Post
    IF the egg spawn event would be put when the crystal cache is spawned then it would fix this whole issue, because we cannot possibly get out of range in that short of a period of time.
    Thank you very much for this! I looked into what is spawning the caches vs what is spawning the eggs and it is two very different systems.

    Unfortunately, without going into too much detail, the event that spawns the cache doesn't have any idea what kind of critter is being helped. In order to give it this information we would have to redo the entire way critters work, which would take quite a while and wouldn't do very much to improve Trove compared to the extensive amount of time it would take. So, with that in mind I'm going to work on coming up with ways to make it more meaningful to slow down and celebrate with the critters you lovingly assisted.

    As a token of appreciate for the effort and patience you put into getting to the root of this I sent you a code for Grim, my Dev ally, please enjoy your new pup!
    Trove loves you just the way you are.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Arion4K's Avatar
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    Thank you Meowser.

    We'll be all waiting on the changes for the tame eggs <3

    IGN : Autumn| Leader of Laezaria

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