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Thread: [Discussion] Skill vs. Grind

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    Senior Member INN3R_C4L4M1TY's Avatar
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    [Discussion] Skill vs. Grind

    I've decided to start this thread to discuss a major concern I have about the game, which is how much of the game's challenge is overcome through grinding vs. developing the skill necessary to succeed.

    With Geode coming up and u10 likely still rather early in development, I figure now is the best time to discuss this so the devs can get a sense of how the community feels on the topic and take that into consideration while working on u10 and later updates.

    Now, in an MMORPG, the Skill:Grind ratio is obviously going to be unbalanced. MMORPGs are games that are designed to be played for months or years. Getting good at a game doesn't typically take that long. However, in Trove, that ratio is way more unbalanced than in most other MMORPGs.

    Trove has simple mechanics that are easy to learn and just as easy to master. It's a mechanically easy game that's very grind-heavy. As a result of this, Trove burns out its players more quickly and more thoroughly than other MMORPGs. Every player I know with 300+ mastery, including myself, has quit the game at some point in the past before coming back to it. That's not a coincidence.

    Now, with that in mind, time to move on to the main question for this thread. Should future content in Trove have more of a focus on getting better at the game vs. getting better gear, gems, etc.?

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    Senior Member pFurini's Avatar
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    Would be awesome to have some more content focused on gameplay instead of numbers.


    The closest thing we have right now are the coin challenges that require you to know the correct ways to do some maps and get all the points and the DD boss that requires some mechanics to defeat.


    Sadly that's all we got and it is ruined a lot of times by lag.


    Any ideas on how to make u10 focused on 'skills'?

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    Senior Member INN3R_C4L4M1TY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pFurini View Post
    Any ideas on how to make u10 focused on 'skills'?
    Well, for example, they could add some special dungeons that are like the dragon lairs, but not hidden and containing bosses that use Dreadnought-like attacks to limit where in the arena you can safely be. Maybe these bosses could drop some sort of untradeable gear booster item, which could be used on any piece of stellar gear(including a ring), to give it a small stat boost, up to a max of something like 20, 50, or 100 for each piece of gear.

    That way, 1. There would be random bosses that would be like the dragons, but actually challenging, increasing the level of skill. 2. Those bosses, when found, would feel satisfying to kill because when you defeat one, you can immediately become more powerful, making the grind less boring. 3. There would be more stuff for players to work towards and that stuff would only be random when it comes to actually finding the bosses, adding more things for players to do without relying on RNG.

    In addition to that, they could just generally make telegraphed, AoE, 'Red Circle' attacks more common starting in u10. Right now, it's pretty much just the instakill moves that do that. This is something that Neverwinter did really well and that I feel would really work to make Trove's combat more interesting. All highly damaging, slow attacks, such as the Invaders doing their charged stab, could clearly show the area they are going to hit in, so the player can move out of the way.

    Trove could also have some melee/ranged hybrid enemies that use different attacks depending on player distance, potentially making an enemy more powerful against a gunslinger than a neon ninja or really good at destroying melee tanks.

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    Senior Member fruitie's Avatar
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    More skill would be nice, though lag could make it super frustrating. Having said that, I'm not sure they ever intended trove to require any skill. Though I do find it odd how they decided to balance everything so that so many people rely on death defying.

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    Senior Member INN3R_C4L4M1TY's Avatar
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    I just had a really interesting idea that plays into the whole death defying vs other flasks thing. What if there was a third emblem slot, exclusively for a new type of 'utility' emblem? Utility emblems would do neutral stuff (or positive stuff with huge tradeoffs) like temporarily swapping your damage between magic and physical or significantly increasing your damage dealt, but also reducing your movement speed to 20 and your jumps to 1. The berserker emblem would become a utility emblem because it would fit a lot more there. Now, with the current game, that damage swapping one seems useless, but it wouldn't be if there were enemies in u10 that could do the Dreadnought shield thing(but with resistance rather than immunity).

    Anyway, this change would really help players who use manual flasks, while not benefiting DDV users quite as much, since they give up control over the timing. It would also encourage more careful use of flasks by adding another element to the timing of it. This would be a skill increase that could make the game's combat more engaging.

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    I think it would be fun if they added bonus drops for not doing things like using DDV, or not using any ranged dps against DD.. etc

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    Senior Member kaizer killer's Avatar
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    New utility emblems sound interesting given the amount they effect combat. Having more combinations tend to be good and I know berserk definitely has a trade off most out of the emblems. Mobs like the flametron that had a shield and took some teamwork was nice or even more enemies with unique things to them would be fun.
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    Senior Member KoBeWi's Avatar
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    The easiest way to increase difficulty and make the game skill-based is to (God forbid) nerf/remove Death-Defying.

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    Senior Member INN3R_C4L4M1TY's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoBeWi View Post
    The easiest way to increase difficulty and make the game skill-based is to (God forbid) nerf/remove Death-Defying.
    Perhaps, but the easiest way isn't always the best way. I'd much prefer new mechanics that make the other vials preferable over just lazily nerfing or removing the most popular flask in the game.

  10. #10
    Senior Member PowerDj's Avatar
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    I completely agree with this. Trove really needs to have more content requiring skill at the game, rather than just pumping your numbers up and holding left click. It'd be nice to have more enemies like the Dreadnought, but not in the sense that they have moves which fill up the entire room. What I like about the Dreadnought is that its attacks, for the most part, can actually be read, so you're able to dodge them and avoid damage, therefore giving you benefits for paying attention to the boss and timing your dodges. The only mob right now that has that is the mushroom king (and all mobs using the same rig), since it has the attack where it lifts its fists up, then smashes them down for a strong attack. You can dodge the attack because it's clearly telegraphed by the enemy.

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