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  Click here to go to the first Trove Team post in this thread.   Thread: Trove Livestream Notes 11/05/2018

  1. #21
    Member TheRallykiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sacrid View Post
    That was kinda my point. People are most interested in the stuff we don't know about, but they consistently ask for questions as if they aren't expecting us to ask questions they cant/wont answer.
    Ideally they would be giving us some idea of the focus of the stream and asking for questions about said topic, instead they pick the questions that they don't actually answer so they can pretend they are interacting with the community.
    I think a lot of how the devs act on livestreams is based on the overtly vocal reactions from select members of the community.

    However...

    I think Warframe's Devstreams (love or hate the game) are the best dev-run livestreams in the industry, and they're exemplars for transparency and disclosure in digestible amounts. So much of what they do should be copied across the spectrum. It isn't perfect, but it's a great working model of an exponentially more open line of communication.

    You have to live under a voxelated rock to not see that there IS a gulf between the devs and the glut of the community. I think before class reworks, U10+, and a PvP revamp, the relationship between dev and player needs to be addressed and built-up which can change the culture of the game and community (or at least shift it in a better direction).

  2.   This is the last Trove Team post in this thread.   #22
    Community Manager Fasti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheRallykiller View Post
    I think a lot of how the devs act on livestreams is based on the overtly vocal reactions from select members of the community.

    However...

    I think Warframe's Devstreams (love or hate the game) are the best dev-run livestreams in the industry, and they're exemplars for transparency and disclosure in digestible amounts. So much of what they do should be copied across the spectrum. It isn't perfect, but it's a great working model of an exponentially more open line of communication.

    You have to live under a voxelated rock to not see that there IS a gulf between the devs and the glut of the community. I think before class reworks, U10+, and a PvP revamp, the relationship between dev and player needs to be addressed and built-up which can change the culture of the game and community (or at least shift it in a better direction).
    I'll acknowledge that I haven't checked out a Warframe livestream, but based on your feedback I will definitely do that ASAP (hopefully this evening). Just to make sure the communication flows both ways, what are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.
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  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    I'll acknowledge that I haven't checked out a Warframe livestream, but based on your feedback I will definitely do that ASAP (hopefully this evening). Just to make sure the communication flows both ways, what are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.
    More in-depth discussion on how new systems work via the forums or reddit would be a good start. So many problems could be avoided if we could see how they worked outside the PTS (Specifically the mess of gems at launch and the costs of vanguardian).
    There is a substantial amount of people who effectively use the PTS as a "cheat server" instead of actually testing new stuff on it. It clearly doesn't work very well to gather feedback on major updates.
    This one might be touchy, but your streams are horrible as a primary source of information. Your own forums and Reddit would be a much better primary source and are easier to monitor feedback than a stream chat.

  4. #24
    Senior Member cerkaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    What are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.
    Creating some content and think we all love it and it's perfect, there is a lot of things that could use a nice rework.

    You collect no feedback on class changes etc, just assuming it's perfect and then moving to next class. If the community wants anything done in this game, we have to complain in large amounts.

    And it's not a lack of bug-reporting, we have serveral bugs reported which we got no clue if you're even working on or not. Bugthreads can stay open for ages.

    Rather fix some of the stuff we already have, than putting the priority on new content, that you think we really want.

    Implementing a battle royal gamemode, really shows you put "statistic" over community feedback.

    Tl:dr Take more feedback, listen to it and do something.

  5. #25
    Member TheRallykiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    I'll acknowledge that I haven't checked out a Warframe livestream, but based on your feedback I will definitely do that ASAP (hopefully this evening). Just to make sure the communication flows both ways, what are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.
    @Fasti

    I definitely want to give you a shout out because I really appreciate you taking the reins on community issues and striving to make them better.

    Thank you.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by cerkaz View Post
    Creating some content and think we all love it and it's perfect, there is a lot of things that could use a nice rework.

    You collect no feedback on class changes etc, just assuming it's perfect and then moving to next class. If the community wants anything done in this game, we have to complain in large amounts.

    And it's not a lack of bug-reporting, we have serveral bugs reported which we got no clue if you're even working on or not. Bugthreads can stay open for ages.

    Rather fix some of the stuff we already have, than putting the priority on new content, that you think we really want.

    Implementing a battle royal gamemode, really shows you put "statistic" over community feedback.

    Tl:dr Take more feedback, listen to it and do something.
    Agreed. After the Summer update and their end of the year one I think they should focus on a major release of bug fixes, optimizations and QoL changes, as well as going through their backlog of feedback.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by deldar75 View Post
    if it is going to be new gem type like earth or any other type then that is also mean we will see new Primordial Dragon.


    Finally something where I can use one of my 3 *spare* DDEs on



    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    I'll acknowledge that I haven't checked out a Warframe livestream, but based on your feedback I will definitely do that ASAP (hopefully this evening). Just to make sure the communication flows both ways, what are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.

    Pro: Informative and revealing

    I personally see the biggest plus in your live streams in information preview and officially answering community's questions.


    Visit different places/ display club names during stream

    But at one time the streams got boring for me. It might be because the upcoming content wasn't as interesting to me or because there have been the same clubs beeing visited and shown. One nice thing would be a live club name display, so people instantly know which club did have this awesome castle or that epic tree over there or those minniegame/player maps that were seen during the stream. For instant joining or for giving a heart later after the club ambush was over.



    Reveal next stream's core thematic in question's Threads

    I didn't thought about picked questions before. Wasn't it always so that everyone can ask whatever they want and the Trove team does answer them if they haven't been answered recently? If you want more questions about a certain topic, then - as suggested by a poster before - giving a small hint about the stream content would lead to more direct questions you wish for. Like for today's case it would be 'this stream will be about the new PvP mode' written in the question topic, please ask questions focusing that?


    Give community the feeling to be heard

    Of course I really love to have the option to also ask questions about what lies on your heart even if it is no immediate topic for Trion *cough Fae issue after MoP cough*. And it feels to great to be heard by getting an answer. Even if it is a 'We have other plans now, but it will be on the to-do list'.


    Show steam-exclusive content hence and then

    I remember also nice streams that were out of line of the rest. Like one showing actual development of a firework visualation by Keetsie. Seeing things that usually take place 'behind the scenes' gives a better understanding how things work at Trion. It might be nice to see different parts during a stream, even if it was like a first scretch of a planning phase for the new battle system or some coding. If security allows it. Just something additionally that players don't see anyways inside the game eventually.



    Keep streams interesting/ show progress

    In general your streams should be something that palyers love to see and that players are looking forward to watch. I don't have a recipy of success here, but when I tell other players that today is Friday and the dev stream happens, then most do not show too much interest in it. The usual answer is that they will watch or read a recap later and if they join then it is simply for the code rewards - which is kinda sad for the effort the Team puts in these streams. The livestreams would need something aside a straight code reward that would draw more players out. Maybe adding more varity somehow by keeping or rising the current quality?




    Maybe this personal note helps, but since hero update was aproaching, I watched each stream again, because there were things to see that I wanted to learn more about and that I wanted to see more from. This might be lust me and of course you can not always have new stuff to reveal.



    Hopefully my list of suggestions can contribute

  8. #28
    Senior Member Chronozilla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fasti View Post
    I'll acknowledge that I haven't checked out a Warframe livestream, but based on your feedback I will definitely do that ASAP (hopefully this evening). Just to make sure the communication flows both ways, what are some specific things we could be doing but aren't? I'm looking to hear your specific concerns so we can see the best way forward.
    What i want to see the most is more involvement and feedback from players in pre-production and actual production stages of content, if nothing else to just for the devs to share concepts and pitch content ideas, and see how the community might react to them way before they've taken form, so there's still gonna be plenty of time to rethink those ideas, as it stands right now, we only have minimal input due to only being shown content once its in post-production, would also like less time during streams wasted on jokes and have that instead be used to follow up on progress on concepts that have been shown off previously.
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  9. #29
    Member TheRallykiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronozilla View Post
    What i want to see the most is more involvement and feedback from players in pre-production and actual production stages of content, if nothing else to just for the devs to share concepts and pitch content ideas, and see how the community might react to them way before they've taken form, so there's still gonna be plenty of time to rethink those ideas, as it stands right now, we only have minimal input due to only being shown content once its in post-production, would also like less time during streams wasted on jokes and have that instead be used to follow up on progress on concepts that have been shown off previously.
    I think Digital Extremes and the Warframe team do a great job of involvement beyond a test server (which constrains community analysis and significance of feedback). One of the other great things that DE does, and IMHO the Trove community would appreciate is player statistics and data.

    As a made-up example:

    "The dev team had re-worked the Revenant so Spirit Spears scales w/physical damage because total Spirit Spear usage accounted for only 1.75% of all Revenant ability use across all three platforms (on average). We're scaling it w/physical damage because the scaling would put it on par with other channeled abilities in terms of DPS, and players could get maximum benefit from gems (assuming they roll phys damage, max HP up, and max HP % up) if building tanky, BUT would still be incredibly viable in a more damage-focused build)."

    Then I'd stream a Rev between 15 and 20k (not w/dev gear), running U9 and some ST (Hard and Ultra) to demonstrate - it wouldn't even have to be for a livestream. This would reinforce—through example—the viability of the class changes, and supporting it w/facts and raw data gives dev changes firmer ground to stand on, and a logical foundation for the community to work from.

    Bungie is not an exemplar of community engagement or livestreams, but they create great data maps and charts of player-use/behavior statistics for weapons. When they made some big changes to Destiny 1's shotguns, they overwhelmed the community and press w/data. it makes it easier to see the logic.

    I think the Trove team's strengths are that they are relatable and personable. You folks have access to data, and that (most likely) drives your decisions. Share it! Make streams equal parts education & entertainment. I think if the team slowly re-evaluates their approach to community engagement (through streams, forums, social media, or whatever) you'll curb a significant amount of bad vibes, fuel more discussion, and circumvent the co-opting of Trove's message by it's handful of overly-influential streamers—it'll keep messaging in YOUR control and mitigate weird fallout.

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