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Thread: Vanguardian Impressions and Feedback

  1. #11
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  2. #12
    Senior Member Craftsman42's Avatar
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    So here's my first thoughts of the class abilities:

    Passive: Rather lackluster. Breaking blocks is cool in concept, but doesn't help the class. If it has to stay that way, it could be more useful if it broke blocks on the side, or stunned/hurt enemies, but I don't like it.

    M1: No comments here.

    M2 melee: Not what the close range needs. The class needs more mobility, and maybe swapping that out with a dash or something would probably do the trick.

    1 melee: I forget it exists.

    M2 ranged: It looks the same as M1. Not sure if that's good or bad.

    1 ranged: Has its uses, so it's OK for me, but again, I forget it's there.

    Ultimate: What's the point? Cooldown is way too long, and there is no benefit to changing modes. Either make it so the ultimate has a combo attack when you activate it, increase the distance of the forward and backward dash, and/or reduce the cooldown. Not sure how this could abuse the vial of ultimate power, but the chance is there. This is a cool idea, where you can have 2 modes for a class, but it's too clunky to bother using. Just go with ranged and forget about 2 as it is.

    Class gem: Good idea, just haven't had the chance to play with it. Nothing to say about it.

    Again, cool concept, and I am hyped for it, but there's definitely room for improvement.

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  3. #13
    Senior Member CryoGX's Avatar
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    Aiight I got the class gem and I've got even more feedback, this time for individual moves.

    Passive: Awesome premise but completely impractical in execution. Its slow use speed and reliance on flight (and the fact it destroys dungeon blocks and flight's hard to aim from afar) makes this skill a less accessible ambush attack. I personally think the effect of the class gem should be on here and the class gem should get something more radical.

    M1: Okay before anything else: change the ranges version's animation to be something original. I mentioned it already but it's a little annoying to see GS's animation here.

    Melee mode has good potential for utility in its uppercut, but the fact that it can sometimes knock enemies AWAY from the shortest range class in the game is incredibly counterintuitive. I'd personally suggest a snare but then pvp would be hell to balance probably. I like the uppercut launching upwards, just not away.

    Ranged needs it's animation changed, again. Also I feel like the attack's effective range is a little too high. It can encourage people to literally just camp in this mode. In a class that needs both melee and range there needs to be rqualyincentive to cycle through both.

    M2: The main mobbing skill and definitely my favorite thing about the class. Melee mode feels great when you delete dudes with your eyeballs, and ranged mode is literally a hadouken down to the animation so no complaints there.

    However idk if it was lag but it feels like if you get hit while in the charging animation for the ranged version, the skill gets stopped and you lose energy and deal no damage.

    1: They're very practical but lackluster. They're literally just active buffs that don't offer anything significant, mechanically or address a situation. They just exist to be spammed when off cooldown. However I'm not against em, but as they are, they feel basic/underloaded. I feel like melee version could suck in enemies/increase defense and ranged could push them away.

    2: Swap skill really does not need a cooldown. All it encourages imo is staying in one mode and forgetting about swapping. It removes a lot of potential depth from the class as it's easy to get into the grind and stop bothering with modes outside of personal preference or purposely timing your buff for use in the other mode.

    If it's a hybrid class it should flow between both modes rather than be a pick and choose. Right now it feels like VanG just wants to be two different classes and never fully utilize the fact it has more basic skills but no ult.

    Class Gem: Forgive me here but I feel like this class should not have even needed to exist. CGs help solve key problems of a class and this one helps, but the fundamental class should not be this clunky just to slightly make up for it in the endgame. That's not fun. This skill would be more practical as Vangaurdian's passive if you insist on keeping the cooldowns, and the class gem should offer something more offensively in terms of utility/mobility to make up for the lack of an actual ultimate.

  4. #14
    Super simplified feedback from me on this is the range mode feels too much like playing gun slinger, otherwise i like the hero conceptually. Melee mode feels pretty good to me.
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  5. #15
    Senior Member CryoGX's Avatar
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    http://forums.trovegame.com/showthre...19-2018-Part-2



    Hey guys they updated the class so make sure to post feedback after trying it out! I won't be able to login for a bit to try out the changes but it's looking like they're keeping this CD-based direction.

    Now everything's on 20s CD and the CG's buffed so that does mean less clunkiness and more effectiveness from the gem.

    Additionally here are some coefficients and numbers tested out by Oakiyo on the Trove Wiki. Note that not everything's the same as the patch notes in this so be sure to test things out thoroughly for yourself before adding more feedback!




  6. #16
    the class gem its working much better now but the 1 still dont really work well and melee combo got a even greater knockback... the monsters are going so far that they lose threat and start walking

  7. #17
    Senior Member CryoGX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joji View Post
    the class gem its working much better now but the 1 still dont really work well and melee combo got a even greater knockback... the monsters are going so far that they lose threat and start walking
    Yeah I'm in game right now and idk what the heck's up but I'm sure this is completely unintentional.

    Yo everyone else, Vanguardian's Melee uppercut not only knocks enemies up still, but it also knocks them back in an arc, far away from the player. Please tell me that this was not intentional lmao.

  8. #18
    Senior Member TheDeadEye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CryoGX View Post
    Yeah I'm in game right now and idk what the heck's up but I'm sure this is completely unintentional.

    Yo everyone else, Vanguardian's Melee uppercut not only knocks enemies up still, but it also knocks them back in an arc, far away from the player. Please tell me that this was not intentional lmao.
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  9. #19
    Senior Member CryoGX's Avatar
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    Here's my feedback for the class as of yesterday (2/20) my dudes.

    Key changes so far:

    >Swap and range buff cooldown's been reduced, melee buff cd increased; all skills now have 20s CD

    >Class gem was increased in effectiveness to where every 3rd consectutive melee hit and 5th consecutive ranged hit reduces all cooldowns by 1 second.

    >Ranged's...range has been reduced to be less of Shadow Hunter and Gunslinger

    >Ranged buff increases damage by 50% now

    >Knockup was "fixed" in yesterday's patch. I know it's being addressed in today's build so I won't provide feedback there.

    >Overall damage was buffed


    Good direction so far, but it's still a ways out from truly being there, IMO. I've Here's my current gripes, and I discussed em with other players such as Comply yesterday:

    >The class, down to its frame data, is fundamentally clunky. Frame data is the term for how long every aspect of every move lasts down to 60ths of a second, and is a term used most often in fighting games. Its animations and requirement to constantly land a 3rd/5th consecutive hit without stopping conflict with each other as any action drops the entire combo that you need to utilize.

    >Unlike other classes, Vangaurdian is supposed to switch stances regularly to maximize DPS. Ranged mode doesn't have as much inherent damage as melee does, but it has the buff that violently increases melee mode's DPS, so there is, in fact, decent incentive to switch in the endgame.

    >However, when coupled with your class gem, the fluidity of dancing through modes gets shot in the foot. ANYTHING and EVERYTHING you do that isn't constantly attacking stops your combo and lowers the effectiveness of your class gem, even if you flask once and go back to attacking. This is because of how long all the animations for the class last without being able to be canceled out.


    Suggested Changes:
    -Add Animation Cancelling: for those that do not know, animation cancelling is when you start a move, and you can do another move before the entire move finishes playing. What this enables is the ability to quickly chain moves together. I believe this should be implemented within every move that Vanguardian has, including its dodge, as, unlike other classes, it absolutely HAS to maintain strings of hits between modes to most efficiently reduce its cooldowns and increase DPS.
    -Add a true Combo Counter to the passive. Reward the user for making more hits in a row, and have this reward last long enough to let them flask or do anything else, without sacrificing as much damage. Make them more powerful the longer they fight. EX: Every 3 consecutive hits you land within 3 seconds of each other gives 1% damage, up to double damage at a 300 hit combo.
    -Lower cooldown of swap skill to 10 seconds: For a class that prioritizes swapping, why should a cooldown need to be in the way of literally its most fundamental mechanic? It's not an ult; it's its core skill.
    -Make the ranged combo end on every 4th or 3rd hit instead of 5th: Ranged combos take too long to do compared to melee and are that much easier to drop, leaving you in ranged mode that much longer when you have a class gem. Travel time and distance of the projectiles should be factored into this as well.
    -Change the ranged basic firing animation: I'm pretty sure you're aware of it by now but I will keep saying it until the day it's patched with an original animation over it, since it's literally Gunslinger.

  10. #20
    Senior Member CryoGX's Avatar
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    Sorry for the double-post but I think this is meaningful enough to warrant it.



    So here's today's changes.

    What's good
    -Vanguardian's Melee mode feels a bit smoother to play and transition into.
    -Needing one less projectile to end the ranged combo feels a ton better.
    -Complete removal of knockback feels great; I can now DBZ someone into oblivion.
    -Overall it's definitely getting there and I'm glad you guys are fine-tuning the class for us this quickly.

    What could be better
    -Vanguardian still has long, clunky animations for Fired Up and the skill for swapping into Ranged mode (forgot what it was called). They're clunky in the sense that Vangaurdian stands in place after the animation ends for a split second before they can attack. It doesn't feel fluid, especially compared to Melee mode.

    -I forgot that those that get hit by your Laser Eyes take a debuff; there should be an indication for that.

    -Vanguardian still lacks something "big" to tie together the whole package, IMO. I still feel that the passive is underloaded and can have another benefit added to it.


    Suggestions
    -Let Vanguardian attack faster/earlier out of Fired up's and Swap's animations.
    -Additionally, let Vanguardian attack out of Dabsh before it ends (think about it; it'd be so much fun lol)
    -Add an indicator for those debuffed by Laser Vision.
    -Change Ranged mode's default firing animation to be something more original.
    -Add a buff to Vanguardian's passive that temporarily boosts its damage by X% every time it changes modes, and have it stack up to Y times (Have it last like 15 seconds to make the class gem that much more important to have!). Vanguardian's main mechanic is dancing through both modes so it'd make sense to reward the player for constantly doing this and not camping in one mode.
    -Remove Herobrine

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