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Grievous
08-22-2015, 02:39 PM
This isn't naming and shaming, this isn't flaming, this isn't unproductive content. If anything, I congratulate Lion for getting away with such a thing without being noticed.
I'm helping the community realize what wording can do to your brain and how it affects everyone.

Well, I decided to just make a post since I've been getting PM's about this post: http://forums.trovegame.com/showthread.php?51339-Phoenix-Mount-Raffle&p=338597#post338597

I had to explain how the house profited a ton because of the flaws people couldn't spot out.
Yeah you're entering a raffle for cheaper but you're also helping the house profit tons without realizing it.


X = Tickets
Y = 3000 (Flux, cost per ticket)
P = Overall Profit
W = Winners (4)
Total Tickets Sold: 90
~~~~
X*3000 = 270,000
~~~~

Truefire/Balefire Phoenix Mount Cost: 50~70k) Let's average that out to 60k?

~~~~
270,000 - (60,000 * 4) = 270,000 - 240,000 = 30,000

P = 30,000
~~~~

That is 30,000 profit for himself for hosting a "raffle"
This is made for profit, no other reason behind it.
It was smart, yes. But to the educated they can easily spot the flaw.
Let's go with Truefire/Balefire Phoenix Mount Cost: 65k to make it more fair, why not?

~~~~
270,000 - (65,000 * 4) = 270,000 - 260,000 = 20,000

P = 20,000
~~~~

That's an extra Truefire/Balefire Phoenix Mount off of just hosting this giveaway, a profit of 80k.
Let's take the other 10 entries that weren't fulfilled. (These don't really matter but why not, let's show the profit here)
~~~~
X = 80 (90 - 10 entries)
Y = 3000

X * Y = 240,000

That's 0 profit in the end for the host, that is why the amount needed per rank is 15 therefore there is profit being made.
~~~~

There are other prizes that can be accounted but regardless, there is no profit for anything besides the house.

King Kek
08-22-2015, 02:45 PM
I.... Uh....
This is how raffles work though?
**** loads go into the pot, the house keeps the difference and the person entering gets or doesn't get the prize which they have agreed upon.
They agreed to do this - Of course the house profits, who doesn't realize that?

Tbh I'm mad I didn't think of it first GG Lion

Grievous
08-22-2015, 02:49 PM
I.... Uh....
This is how raffles work though?
**** loads go into the pot, the house keeps the difference and the person entering gets or doesn't get the prize which they have agreed upon.
They agreed to do this - Of course the house profits, who doesn't realize that?

Tbh I'm mad I didn't think of it first GG Lion

Yes, it's how they work.
But is it right to mislead people into thinking they get it for cheaper? As that's what's said in the thread.
Eh, maybe not maybe it's just my point of view. But I just think people don't know how to do the math correctly and didn't notice how much profit was being gained.
I'm not going against Lion, he's smart for doing it and fooling people which is what I was going to do but never had the time to.

Dunami
08-22-2015, 02:56 PM
I'm perfectly fine with raffles. The problem comes in when people make absolute bank and then don't come through with their items or it's an alt account who wins, and they simply trade the item back to themselves, lay low until they see a buyer for said item, and sell it away. (They can always say they have multiple as well too)

My goal is that once I get a chaos coin I'll be doing the same thing, or I might do the same thing with my radiant sword. Not sure if it would be nice enough for people to bid on or anything though xD

AgeOfEquinox
08-22-2015, 02:56 PM
Yes, it's how they work.
But is it right to mislead people into thinking they get it for cheaper? As that's what's said in the thread.
Eh, maybe not maybe it's just my point of view. But I just think people don't know how to do the math correctly and didn't notice how much profit was being gained.
I'm not going against Lion, he's smart for doing it and fooling people which is what I was going to do but never had the time to.
So you made this post to warn people about how Lion was making profit from a raffle, as if it were bad that he was making profit, then say that you were going to fool people but you didnt have time as well..? GG

StarPinata
08-22-2015, 03:04 PM
I guess I don't understand why these are allowed but codes are not, seeing as it is just as easy to go 'hey, hosting a raffle!' take everyone's money then split.

Dunami
08-22-2015, 03:10 PM
I guess I don't understand why these are allowed but codes are not, seeing as it is just as easy to go 'hey, hosting a raffle!' take everyone's money then split.

Eventually if raffles become commonplace like codeselling was, it will become a bannable offense. Every mmo i've ever played has banned forms of raffles from their forums.

Grievous
08-22-2015, 06:54 PM
So you made this post to warn people about how Lion was making profit from a raffle, as if it were bad that he was making profit, then say that you were going to fool people but you didnt have time as well..? GG

I already stated that I congratulate Lion for it.
If it wasn't me who was going to come out and say it someone else would've. Several people PMed me about the raffle thread before-hand speaking about how much of a scam it is. I was just the one who explained it and posted it after.
GG

godkiu
08-22-2015, 08:25 PM
I already stated that I congratulate Lion for it.
If it wasn't me who was going to come out and say it someone else would've. Several people PMed me about the raffle thread before-hand speaking about how much of a scam it is. I was just the one who explained it and posted it after.
GG

How is it a scam? He is smart enough to create the raffle to make profit from it. People who entered know exactly they won't get the prize for granted. I honestly don't see the problem. Those calling it a "scam" are probably jealous of the profit he made from it.

AgeOfEquinox
08-22-2015, 08:33 PM
How is it a scam? He is smart enough to create the raffle to make profit from it. People who entered know exactly they won't get the prize for granted. I honestly don't see the problem. Those calling it a "scam" are probably jealous of the profit he made from it.

Lol Grievous's post comes off as him trying to "warn" people about these scams, yet he is supposedly "congratulating" Lion.. I think Grievous is just jealous that someone got around to this "scam" before he did

Libeca
08-22-2015, 08:49 PM
Honestly, Grievous is just telling everyone the odds. He's not being salty or anything, like what everyone else is saying. Honestly, Grievous is roughly four times richer than I am, and I honestly don't care enough to spend several hours to make a 80k. Grievous probably also does not care much about 80k. It's really not that big a deal. I sincerely doubt Grievous is jealous that he wasn't the first to do this.

However, this is not a scam. This is a perfectly legit raffle. Most raffles are created FOR PROFIT. They give people a chance to win a "big prize" for a small fee. Usually, the host ends up making a tidy sum.

Foam
08-22-2015, 08:58 PM
enter for 3k for a chance to win 80k. doesnt seem like a rip off in my eyes. it's gambling and the house always profits no matter what.

EDIT: this entire game consists of gambling.

Grievous
08-23-2015, 12:36 AM
Sigh, the ignorance in this thread.
http://replygif.net/i/902.gif
Surprised people think I'm jealous of someone who's literally got only 300~500k flux when I'm sitting on 8 mil and did a 200,000 flux giveaway today.


enter for 3k for a chance to win 80k. doesnt seem like a rip off in my eyes. it's gambling and the house always profits no matter what.

EDIT: this entire game consists of gambling.

Not getting the point are ya buddy?

godkiu
08-23-2015, 01:32 AM
Sigh, the ignorance in this thread.
http://replygif.net/i/902.gif
Surprised people think I'm jealous of someone who's literally got only 300~500k flux when I'm sitting on 8 mil and did a 200,000 flux giveaway today.



Not getting the point are ya buddy?

I have more flux than you and I know I am jealous of him coming up with such an idea when I'm only selling the phoenix for 75k each.

I honestly don't understand why you have to start a post to warn people about the odds of the raffle. You don't see the lottery in real life being called a scam or people entering the lottery being warned do you?

Libeca
08-23-2015, 01:52 AM
The irony of your response is that yes, there are TONS of people whining about the HUGE tax on the lottery winnings. It's literally called a Tax on the Poor/Stupid. Also, if you really care about the extra 80k which took HOURS to make, I doubt you're that rich.

godkiu
08-23-2015, 02:08 AM
The irony of your response is that yes, there are TONS of people whining about the HUGE tax on the lottery winnings. It's literally called a Tax on the Poor/Stupid. Also, if you really care about the extra 80k which took HOURS to make, I doubt you're that rich.

OMG HOURS. You do realize he just had to bump the post a few times and then collect payment afterwards right?

Rainbows
08-23-2015, 02:24 AM
Just because he possibly makes some 'commision' off of the raffle, doesn't mean everyone should stay away. Like others have pointed out, this is done all the time in Lucky Draws - because the organisers spend time making it happen; maybe it doesn't take 'Hours', but it still takes work and time, and Lion has been very patient with keeping everyone informed and ensuring payments. I don't know what the intent was behind 'informing others' about the raffle, but I say it was a fun thing - for the participants at least.

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/72/72416c5aa1c799d17a65f4bbb3c2222d89327fe7a24409387f 1b927ab9b0092d.jpg

Mayestic
08-23-2015, 02:31 AM
i have no problems with these raffles.
thats the normal way a raffle work.
at the end (or the most times) the guy who start the raffle got more money out as he put in.

Bonkerz
08-23-2015, 05:21 AM
A post that educates people,I'm fine with that,but it is ironic that the wording in this post swayed towards bringing down Lion's business/scheme don't it?:/

Lion
08-23-2015, 08:05 AM
Sorry but 90*3000 = 270.000. Not 360. I hope you really note that next time before you post it.
Furthermore, I'd gladly give you a list of what I've been doing with the money I made off of it lately.

The prizes I've given away, by the way, were 3 phoenixes worth approx. 70k each => do the math; 70*3 = 210k
The 4th prize was a Springing turkey for which I already had a 50k offer at the time making it a 260k cost raffle making my total profit 10k

Now, the price for tickets will be going down due to limited Phoenixes being given away in the future, but dont think I made a lot of profit. I've so far reinvested 90k in new prizes and 20k in a gift for a friend of mine. I honestly feel like this IS shaming because you make it look like Im making absurd amounts out of it, which I dont. And its CERTAINLY naming due to you SAYING my name.

If you have any problems with my raffles and things alike, please contact me and we can discuss it. Really though. One more time. 90 * 3000 is 270k, not 360....

Even if it was not the intent, I feel insulted by the way you approached this thread. Publicly claiming my raffles are a scam is probably shaming in the eyes of most I think, and definitely in mine. I've said multiple times that profit was not my intention with this raffle and if you did the calculations that at 65 entries there'd be 4 possible phoenix winners, I'd have made lost at this point. I never expected this many entries and never expected even a bit of profit.

Thank you,

Lion // BartiriX

P.s. Sorry about me being late for this thread, haven' t been able to get my hands on my pc for the past 3 days ^^



I have more flux than you and I know I am jealous of him coming up with such an idea when I'm only selling the phoenix for 75k each.?

Im so darn flattered right now :$

Grievous
08-23-2015, 03:20 PM
The saltines have been delivered to everyone.

ITzKhalil
08-24-2015, 04:41 AM
Honestly When i first say the raffle i calculated how much bank Lion would have made. However i didnt put it upon myself to alert to the community the way Raffles work. I think its a little unfair of you to do so, even if you intendned for it to be purely educational and not to undermine his buisness. Raffles are supposed to be a fun way to win stuff. You enter a few k flux and hope you win. If not its not such a huge loss if you do its a big win. Dont make it seem like Lion was trying to do anything shady man. :/

smetch
08-24-2015, 04:51 AM
I agree with the OP, raffles are just one of many potential ways to trick people, frankly I also detest pricing guides/spreadsheets, there is so much room for manipulation and so many naive people playing it's crazy.

Bonkerz
08-24-2015, 09:18 AM
I agree with the OP, raffles are just one of many potential ways to trick people, frankly I also detest pricing guides/spreadsheets, there is so much room for manipulation and so many naive people playing it's crazy.

I like the way you equally roasted both :3

Lion
08-24-2015, 11:10 AM
I agree with the OP, raffles are just one of many potential ways to trick people, frankly I also detest pricing guides/spreadsheets, there is so much room for manipulation and so many naive people playing it's crazy.

I wish though, that people were able to see with what prizes I gave out, that I actually netto'd at -5k for this raffle.
It's funny how people think I really do it for a profit, because I really only do it because its fun.

godkiu
08-25-2015, 12:57 AM
I agree with the OP, raffles are just one of many potential ways to trick people, frankly I also detest pricing guides/spreadsheets, there is so much room for manipulation and so many naive people playing it's crazy.

pricing guides are never accurate on the rare items